Can 15 floors crush one floor?

[000063]

About three stories. The Verinage demolitions required two stories and the Twin Tower structure was much more robust.

And how did you determine this number?

Were any of those verinage demolitions of steel skyscrapers above 50 stories?

How would the WTC's large size and unusual construction effect the drop distance needed?

How about the fact that large chunks of both tower had been destroyed by the plane impact, which is certainly not a requirement for any version of verinage I know of?

 

[ozeco41]

The only thing C7 is doing in the "walk off" thread is getting slapped around like a red headed step child.

Correct. But it is his form of S&M - the most probable reason for his trolling IMO The claims put in that thread have been rebutted at two levels - at the "higher level" of legitimacy of burden of proof and showing that Tony Sz is only considering a couple of the multiple factors which apply; And at the detail level where members have shown more and more factors which Tony ignores and which show him in error.

C7 is merely playing "stand in" for Tony and keeping the debate circling in details. Except he keeps steadily losing a few details.

Stock standard truther tactics. "If you cannot beat the argument keep the discussion circling and making no progress" C7 is very good at it.

 

[Animal]

Correct. But it is his form of S&M - the most probable reason for his trolling IMO The claims put in that thread have been rebutted at two levels - at the "higher level" of legitimacy of burden of proof and showing that Tony Sz is only considering a couple of the multiple factors which apply; And at the detail level where members have shown more and more factors which Tony ignores and which show him in error.

C7 is merely playing "stand in" for Tony and keeping the debate circling in details. Except he keeps steadily losing a few details.

Stock standard truther tactics. "If you cannot beat the argument keep the discussion circling and making no progress" C7 is very good at it.

Yeah, he is already recycling claims that were shot down months ago and he ran away from......

Then there are the new ones......like "you can't stretch a steel beam"

 

[Tony Szamboti]

And how did you determine this number?

Were any of those verinage demolitions of steel skyscrapers above 50 stories?

How would the WTC's large size and unusual construction effect the drop distance needed?

How about the fact that large chunks of both tower had been destroyed by the plane impact, which is certainly not a requirement for any version of verinage I know of?

The height of the drop is determined by the momentum needed to destroy the columns of the lower structure.

Only 15% of the columns were disrupted in WTC 1 at the point of impact between the 95th and 96th floors and significantly less than that at the 97th floor and the initiation occurred on the 98th floor.

Your other questions are not germane.

 

[Tony Szamboti]

Yeah, he is already recycling claims that were shot down months ago and he ran away from......

Then there are the new ones......like "you can't stretch a steel beam"

You just keep saying that and maybe you will make yourself believe it. There is more than one parrot of these types of unsupported phrases around here so you shouldn't feel lonely.

 

[Animal]

You just keep saying that and maybe you will make yourself believe it. There is more than one parrot of these types of unsupported phrases around here so you shouldn't feel lonely.

Projecting a little aren't you? LMAO

 

[ozeco41]

Yeah, he is already recycling claims that were shot down months ago and he ran away from......

It is a long time since we saw a genuine truther putting reasoned arguments. The closest is C7's "troll circling" which he does quite well...but still obvious...so I won't sink to that level.

The one thing I don't comprehend is why they do it. Since the two under consideration here are Gage sycophants the underlying issue is why would any honest intelligent person attach to the AE911 agenda of "we want a new investigation AND we base our reasons on CD at WTC". That started in 2007 when all the reasoned genuine concerns about CD had been thoroughly answered. So the strategy for its claimed purpose was a loser from the outset. The only reason that seems to make sense is Gages ego tripping and salary. But the acolytes only get reflections of those. So why spend the effort? And why here? Surely getting bites from people who can see through the nonsense and only bite for fun is a futile effort?

...and it is clear that neither C7 nor T Sz are serious about the rubbish they post. Otherwise they would do less evasion. Not "no evasion" - just less - keep some for tactical reasons. So why continue to look like a fool ignoring reason and telling untruths deliberately?

Beats me their motivations. Only joy from the debunker perspective the last few weeks is the opportunity to once again clearly spell out the falsification of their claims....for the umpteenth time. And I think we are running out of lurkers who could benefit from the restating of obvious basics. It would be fun if they responded but that is totally foreign to their current modus operandi.

...Then there are the new ones......like "you can't stretch a steel beam"

Sure but only mildly amusing. I suppose we miss the old fashioned trolls who were in it for fun. And made sure that was known without explicit admissions. But that fun game has been lost and desperation reigns from their side.

 

[Animal]

It is a long time since we saw a genuine truther putting reasoned arguments.

I recently discovered the real plot that brought down the towers......it extends all the way back to 1968.....and it all makes sense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wJb4QnJ5PI

 

[ozeco41]

I recently discovered the real plot that brought down the towers......it extends all the way back to 1968.....and it all makes sense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wJb4QnJ5PI

 

[Seymour Butz]

About three stories.

Lie.

 

[Seymour Butz]

The only thing visible is some springing outward of some exterior columns and this hardly means the columns would have been misaligned at impact. The springing is very momentary and they would have returned to their normal position long before collision.

Another lie.

You sir, are a disgrace.

 

[Seymour Butz]

The height of the drop is determined by the momentum needed to destroy the columns of the lower structure.

true.

But your lack of maths prove that this claim comes from your "fundamental orfice".

 

[Justin39640]

The Verinage demolitions required two stories and the Twin Tower structure was much more robust.

Um... I would think that the Tower's enormous size and weight didn't help it. I would also think that a short, squat, concrete building (pound for pound) is more robust.

 

[000063]

The height of the drop is determined by the momentum needed to destroy the columns of the lower structure.

How, then, did you determine what that speed was, and how many stories would be needed to achieve that speed? You would have to, just spitballing, know how much force it would take to make the lower floors buckle, and, how far the upper section would have to fall to exert that force. Roughly.

Only 15% of the columns were disrupted in WTC 1 at the point of impact between the 95th and 96th floors and significantly less than that at the 97th floor and the initiation occurred on the 98th floor.

That doesn't actually answer my question.

By the way, here's a photo of those holes.

Your other questions are not germane.

Considering that one of them was, specifically, "is factor X relevant to your reasoning?", I fail to see how. Unless, of course, you're trying to ignore a factor you didn't or are unwilling to consider.

And, of course, the comparison to verinage is only valid once one considers the differences between verinage and what happened on 9/11, starting with the aforementioned jumbo jet crashes.

 

[000063]

Um... I would think that the Tower's enormous size and weight didn't help it. I would also think that a short, squat, concrete building (pound for pound) is more robust.

Proportionately, yes. Which is why Tony is refusing to even answer the question of whether or not size is relevant. It's ridiculous on its face, since size had to be a factor in any mathematical comparison.

 

[Animal]

Proportionately, yes. Which is why Tony is refusing to even answer the question of whether or not size is relevant. It's ridiculous on its face, since size had to be a factor in any mathematical comparison.

Anyone that says size does not matter........well lets just say the reason is obvious

 

[GlennB]

It's well over three years now that people have been telling Szamboti that the buildings only began to fall because columns were bending and/or disconnecting, and that at this point the column ends would never come together again.

For well over three years people have been pointing out that once this happens resistance cannot be calculated from column strength as it now primarily girders and floor spans that are being hit, and that as floors are stripped away columns are denuded of their lateral support leaving them easy prey.

There is a blind spot in Szamboti's mind that prevents him from seeing this, no matter how many times it's pointed out. I wish I could explain it.

 

[alienentity]

The Verinage demolitions required two stories

Looks like this one required only one story.

p://www.liveleak.com/view?i=192_1339571609

Besides, this idea that a 'minimum' number of stories is required is a red herring. So long as the upper block is not impacting precisely on matching structure below, that distance is moot - obviously other parts of the structure did not have a capacity to hold such a dynamic weight, even if it dropped only a few feet. Obviously. Because they weren't designed to do that.

And it is equally obvious that the internal floor systems would be also collapsing onto those below, regardless of the perimeter column misalignments discussed in this thread. Again the floor systems below were NOT designed to take such loads and would fail almost instantly.

But pretending that everything was lined up perfectly and squarely is the only way TS can keep his 'missing jolts' alive, so that's what he's peddling. It isn't even remotely convincing to me, it's actually rather silly, in 2012, to be maintaining this fiction.

Silly because the ship has sailed, the horse has left the barn, the 'missing jolt' theory sunk to the bottom of the swamp a long time ago. Tony's got one oar left and is paddling in circles thinking he's going somewhere.....

 

[Tony Szamboti]

Um... I would think that the Tower's enormous size and weight didn't help it. I would also think that a short, squat, concrete building (pound for pound) is more robust.

You would be thinking wrong. The towers were designed to support their weight with a much larger factor of safety than any of the Verinage demolitioned buildings.

In other words, pound for pound the twin towers were much stronger.

 

[Tony Szamboti]

Looks like this one required only one story.

p://www.liveleak.com/view?i=192_1339571609

Besides, this idea that a 'minimum' number of stories is required is a red herring. So long as the upper block is not impacting precisely on matching structure below, that distance is moot - obviously other parts of the structure did not have a capacity to hold such a dynamic weight, even if it dropped only a few feet. Obviously. Because they weren't designed to do that.

And it is equally obvious that the internal floor systems would be also collapsing onto those below, regardless of the perimeter column misalignments discussed in this thread. Again the floor systems below were NOT designed to take such loads and would fail almost instantly.

But pretending that everything was lined up perfectly and squarely is the only way TS can keep his 'missing jolts' alive, so that's what he's peddling. It isn't even remotely convincing to me, it's actually rather silly, in 2012, to be maintaining this fiction.

Silly because the ship has sailed, the horse has left the barn, the 'missing jolt' theory sunk to the bottom of the swamp a long time ago. Tony's got one oar left and is paddling in circles thinking he's going somewhere.....

You need to explain how the columns could have been put out of alignment during the first story of the drop in WTC 1. You can't just wave your hand and say they were and then use some sort of argument against me personally to make your point.