Jerry Brown proposes teaching less science, shortening school year as budget solution

[Travis]

Why does California have to raise its own money for high speed rail? Isn't that what Obama's plan is for?

It was. Obama's rail plans were scuttled by the Republicans. But before that happened about $4 billion was allocated to the California plan.

That will allow California to build the "test track" that the FRA wants.

There's also the fact that China may loan California $20 billion to get the system running from San Fran to LA. In exchange a Chinese company would be running the trains over the system and keeping the profit.

If anyone wants to see how Jerry Brown's pressure redid the project so it is scaled down from $100 billion to $30 billion while still being useful please go check this link.

 

[TubbaBlubba]

Don't bad mouth the train. I have invested too much time and energy into making sure it gets built.

I'd gladly see every school in this state closed down before I'll give up that train project.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost_fallacy

A flawless example.

 

[Mark6]

I'd gladly see every school in this state closed down before I'll give up that train project.

Please tell me this is a hyperbole.

As you all may know my berserk button issue is high speed rail. I've put a buttload of time into campaigning to get the California system built.

And my support for the train has become almost pathological. Sometimes I'm sitting around feeling fine then all of a sudden I remember there are people out there that criticize the idea and I fly into a rage that leaves everyone in the vicinity in a state of "WTF just happened with Travis? He was just staring at the wall then started screaming obscenities at the Reason Foundation. Whatever the hell that is."

Frankly I'm amazed no one has tried to tranquilize me over it yet.



Soooo.....who here is willing to own up to an issue that sets them off in a psycho rage?

Something tells me it was NOT a hyperbole...

 

[ravdin]

As much as I'm disgusted with the boondoggle that is the train project, Travis is correct that it's not a trade off with the school budget. It was approved by popular ballot and Jerry Brown could not defund it if he wanted to. It's a classic example of what too much democracy can do- every time there's statewide ballot initiatives California voters want more services from the government but less taxes to pay for them.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Much as science ed seems critical so do a lot of the other education expenses which are threatened to be cut. People need to pay higher taxes but they are convinced by arguments like the government is wasting money on X or Y. There's a 16 billion dollar shortfall. It's not about any one thing.

Gov. Jerry Brown says voters face 'day of reckoning' to avoid budget pain

The high speed rail project is being funded with bonds. That means people invest in the bonds and the state defers payment. So it isn't the same fund as the education funds. You can't compare the two. It the rail project was dropped the money already spent would still be owed and there would be nothing to show for it.

Unspent money would not then be freed up to go toward other needs.


As for the science requirement, the way states are cutting back on funding universities is putting a very heavy debt burden on students that currently exceeds all credit card debt. Seems a higher priority to me, tax wise. Brown believes he needs to cut university funding a whopping 25%.


I think people should use caution trying to evaluate these decisions in isolation or pitting priorities against each other from different funding sources.

 

[Beerina]

This guy is nuts. Doesn't he realize that the primary function of schools is baby sitting? He will have to spend more on police to deal with the extra crime caused by loosing teenagers on the streets longer.

Increase classroom size -- low student-teacher ratios are vastly overstated as affecting outcomes (as is essentially everthing aside from family emphasis on learning).

Also the number of administrative positions and sinecures has climbed until it exceeds number of teachers. Slash, slash, slash. Plenty of room to slash without directly affecting education.

 

[MattusMaximus]

As much as I'm disgusted with the boondoggle that is the train project, Travis is correct that it's not a trade off with the school budget. It was approved by popular ballot and Jerry Brown could not defund it if he wanted to. It's a classic example of what too much democracy can do- every time there's statewide ballot initiatives California voters want more services from the government but less taxes to pay for them.

This is one reason living in Illinois is at least marginally better than living in California. Here we had the foresight to elect a governor who not only cut spending but also raised taxes (horror of horrors). In California it appears damn near impossible to raise taxes.

What's going on in CA reminds me of the old Peter Tosh saying: "Everybody wants to go to Heaven, but nobody wants to die."

 

[MattusMaximus]

Having driven in California a couple of times, I can see how the desire for a HSR system is high. They have a very poor transportation infrastructure. Isn't California also very high in regards to education? Couldn't they afford a little less science?

Thanks for the info, I like learning new (to me) theories that go against the mindset of society. (ha, just read their term for it, real-world behavior.)

The idea there is, sunk costs should not influence future decisions, which is like chasing the pot in poker. Sunk costs may make a decision more favorable, by changing the needed investment, but should not be a reason on its own.

It is also a good example of how people act irrationally.

Hey Travis, TubbaBlubba is calling you irrational.

Education is the best long-term investment to make, hands down, in my opinion. Or, to make an analogy to my days growing up on the farm, "you don't eat your seed corn."

 

[Dymanic]

Reposting an article related to the first of the two issues raised by the OP, as it was swept off to the split thread dedicated to the second issue (High Speed Rail):

Facing uncertain budget prospects, California State University officials announced plans to freeze enrollment next spring at most campuses and to wait-list all applicants the following fall pending the outcome of a proposed tax initiative on the November ballot.

The university is moving to reduce enrollment to deal with $750 million in funding cuts already made in the 2011-12 fiscal year and position itself for at least an additional $200-million cut next year if the tax proposal fails.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/mar/20/local/la-me-cal-state-20120320

It may be true that "almost all" of the $6 billion in additional automatic trigger cuts will fall on K-12 schools, but evidently, a failure of the proposed tax initiative would still have the impact of denying tens of thousands of students access to the state's largest public university system, and I see that as deserving at least a few moment's consideration. Strangely enough, I have encountered absolutely nothing in the media on this issue beyond this one article from three months ago.

 

[I am Bigfoot]

Increase classroom size -- low student-teacher ratios are vastly overstated as affecting outcomes (as is essentially everthing aside from family emphasis on learning).

Also the number of administrative positions and sinecures has climbed until it exceeds number of teachers. Slash, slash, slash. Plenty of room to slash without directly affecting education.

It's all so simple! You solved all problems! YOU SHOULD BE PRESIDENT OF CALIFORNIA!

 

[ThunderChunky]

Even though I voted for it. I would vote down the rail bill if given the choice. Self driving cars FTW. That's where three money should go.

 

[fuelair]

I'm going to just sit and smile here wondering vaguely what parents with kids planning to go to college are going to do as the number of science teachers - and, by default the number of science classes available drop. As most colleges look for more than two science classes - especially the good ones - for any students they bring in for reasons other than the parents paying for a new gym or equivalent. Should be interesting..........

 

[uruk]

I'd gladly see every school in this state closed down before I'll give up that train project. Not that it would be necessary. The project is being built by a totally separate bond measure so canceling it would do absolutely nothing for the schools.

I don't see how the logic works out.

Education is being cut because of a budget shortfall yet the budget short fall does not affect the train dispite the fact that state money is being spent on the train.

Bond or not it is still Californian money being spent. Money that could go into other budgets such as education.

So you could build your train in the hopes to increase jobs but you will have a generation or two of students who might not be sufficiently educated to fill those jobs.

So those jobs become filled by people imported out of state or the train will be run by a Chinese company who will siphon profits out of California.

I hope everything works out in the end. Good luck.

 

[Beerina]

Government using money for something it said it would use for something else is also sadly all too common.

 

[Beerina]

It's all so simple! You solved all problems! YOU SHOULD BE PRESIDENT OF CALIFORNIA!

Cutting is easy if you don't have to worry about people being cut voting against you.

Politicians built this world, and are happy to expand their employee serfs in good times. Let them twist in the wind with their hand forced by a balanced budget requirement in bad times.

 

[Robrob]

Short term stopgap remedy that will most certainly be "someone else's problem" down the road.