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Respecting Christians

We are human, the flesh is weak. At least let your sinning be original? ;)

cj x


Flesh........ it isn't the flesh, it is the brain, flesh has no thoughts. Get at least that right. And to you, who made is "flesh" so weak, US?

Why is it that the god of the bible is never at fault for anything it makes or does.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
If you are a Biblical literalist (if such a thing actually exists) yes I guess so.

It's not demanding people be Biblical Literalist, it's expecting which parts of the Bible we have to follow and which ones we can ignore to have some rhyme or reason.
 
It's either a failure of imagination or an unwillingness to listen for people to continue to address me and cj as though we have the same beliefs.

The sola scriptura position has not been a majority position among those calling themselves Christian for a very long time. A significant fraction of Christendom, which I understand to still be in the majority, takes the position that God put the church in charge, and that the Bible is a tool for their use - not the final arbiter of what is correct.

There are certainly Biblical inerrantists out there, like me. But you can't attribute that viewpoint to those who don't espouse it. And, as I've pointed out on here many many times, even the Biblical inerrantist position involves a deeper and more nuanced understanding of Scripture than the standard unsophisticated atheist "gotcha" quote-mining can adequately address.
 
It's not demanding people be Biblical Literalist, it's expecting which parts of the Bible we have to follow and which ones we can ignore to have some rhyme or reason.

The Bible itself gives the rhyme or reason. It walks through the commands God gave to the patriarchs, to Moses and the Israelites, to the prophets and the judges and the kings.

The Bible then introduces Jesus and His crucifixion, and proceeds to explain how all of those laws and commands above were an imperfect approximation, and those who have accepted Jesus are not bound to them. Instead, we are given new instructions and guidelines based around avoiding evil attitudes (idolatry, malice, selfishness) and putting good attitudes into practice (love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control).

Living according to the ancient Jewish restrictions is explicitly overcome. Instead, each man and woman is taught to live their life as they have been called, but as part of a Church family and in an active relationship with Jesus.

You're not going to learn any of this by quote-mining, so if your exposure to the Bible is limited to lists of verses from its detractors, you won't get any of this. But if you actually read the thing, cover to cover, it's impossible to miss. It's spelled out. It's no mystery, nor do you have to read between the lines -- it's right there in the text.
 
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There are certainly Biblical inerrantists out there, like me. But you can't attribute that viewpoint to those who don't espouse it. And, as I've pointed out on here many many times, even the Biblical inerrantist position involves a deeper and more nuanced understanding of Scripture than the standard unsophisticated atheist "gotcha" quote-mining can adequately address.

Exactly. And indeed I hold to a form of Biblical Inerrancy, just not that represented by the straw man some posters keep throwing at me - and different to my friend Hugh's views on inerrancy despite sharing a denominational tradition.

cj x
 
The Bible itself gives the rhyme or reason. It walks through the commands God gave to the patriarchs, to Moses and the Israelites, to the prophets and the judges and the kings.

The Bible then introduces Jesus and His crucifixion, and proceeds to explain how all of those laws and commands above were an imperfect approximation, and those who have accepted Jesus are not bound to them.
Instead, we are given new instructions and guidelines based around avoiding evil attitudes (idolatry, malice, selfishness) and putting good attitudes into practice (love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control).

Living according to the ancient Jewish restrictions is explicitly overcome. Instead, each man and woman is taught to live their life as they have been called, but as part of a Church family and in an active relationship with Jesus.

You're not going to learn any of this by quote-mining, so if your exposure to the Bible is limited to lists of verses from its detractors, you won't get any of this. But if you actually read the thing, cover to cover, it's impossible to miss. It's spelled out. It's no mystery, nor do you have to read between the lines -- it's right there in the text.

So you're saying God issued imperfect commands? Or maybe that the Jewish God did but the Christian God is way better and he's the one that got it right?

Either way, it just shows how subjective the text in the Bible is - so many people have so many different views.
 
So let me make sure I got this straight.

God gave us the set of rules. Some of the rules we follow and some we don't. Many of the rules contradict each other and it would be impossible to follow them all, so we're all sinners. The rules I want to follow are self evident, the rules I don't want to follow I can ignore without even a token reason.

Good. Glad we got that all cleared up.

Christianity in a nutshell.
 
If you are a Biblical literalist (if such a thing actually exists) yes I guess so; in reality the point of the hyperbole is that lusting is a sin in the wrong context. Technically you have committed adultery with her in your heart (or him), so it may only be a sin for married men if you take it as being not a hyperbole. No one is condemning all lust, which certainly has its place in relationships. What is certainly morally questionable is the notion that it OK to regard women or men as eye candy and impose your fantasies upon them, if to the detriment of their personhood. But this is hyperbole, of the type Jesus uses throughout the Gospels.

Now ethical decisions and moral choices are ones we must make regardless of faith or absence thereof: the Pauline position is clear, we are all sinners. We can attempt to "sin no more", but we will. Repentance is a change of attitude, not a cure all. I would look to your heart and those strong in love for morality, and keep it distinct from issues of sin. We are human, the flesh is weak. At least let your sinning be original? ;)

cj x

Is it hyperbole or the holy word of god?
 
It's either a failure of imagination or an unwillingness to listen for people to continue to address me and cj as though we have the same beliefs.

QED. If the bible really was the holy infallible word of the almighty creator of the universe then you would have the same beliefs. Yet another pointer to the fact that the bible is a work of fiction.
 
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God issued commands that men could not perfectly follow.

*Raises my hand* I have a question.

Why?

God created us, then he created the command. There's no variable in this or any other equation that God isn't in control of.

So God created beings that couldn't follow the instructions he set up for them to follow so he could punish and reward them for not following them.

Yeah that makes sense.
 
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The Bible itself gives the rhyme or reason. It walks through the commands God gave to the patriarchs, to Moses and the Israelites, to the prophets and the judges and the kings.

The Bible then introduces Jesus and His crucifixion, and proceeds to explain how all of those laws and commands above were an imperfect approximation, and those who have accepted Jesus are not bound to them. Instead, we are given new instructions and guidelines based around avoiding evil attitudes (idolatry, malice, selfishness) and putting good attitudes into practice (love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control).

Living according to the ancient Jewish restrictions is explicitly overcome. Instead, each man and woman is taught to live their life as they have been called, but as part of a Church family and in an active relationship with Jesus.

You're not going to learn any of this by quote-mining, so if your exposure to the Bible is limited to lists of verses from its detractors, you won't get any of this. But if you actually read the thing, cover to cover, it's impossible to miss. It's spelled out. It's no mystery, nor do you have to read between the lines -- it's right there in the text.

I have read the bible from cover to cover twice, which is twice more than most Christians.
 
*Raises my hand* I have a question.

Why?

God created us, then he created the command. There's no variable God in this or any other equation that God isn't in control of.

So God created beings that couldn't follow the instructions he set up for them to follow so he could punish and reward them for not following them.

Yeah that makes sense.

Since when did the primitive superstition of religion make sense?
 
Seriously it's a valid question. Why are our imperfections our fault? Why would a perfect being create imperfect beings and then blame and punish them in unimaginable ways for their own imperfections?
 
Seriously it's a valid question. Why are our imperfections our fault? Why would a perfect being create imperfect beings and then blame and punish them in unimaginable ways for their own imperfections?

God works in mysterious ways..... blah blah blah.
 
ETA: Concerning the "Well the commands were just imperfect" copout

*Sighs*

So why did God give us imperfect commands to rules that our very eternal existence is dependent upon?

If I'm gonna burn in hell for eternity for something I don't think asking that it's made pretty damn clear with no loopholes or need to clarification is asking too much.
 
ETA:

So why did God give us imperfect commands to rules that our very eternal existence is dependent upon?

You'd think that the rules would be crystal clear. The tribesmen who wrote the Old Testament do not appear to have been the brightest buttons in the box.
 

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