Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[Rare Truth]

He spoke to the police without an attorney at least 3 times and did a walk through. The police grilled him and tried to trip him up already according to sources. How bad can it really be to put him on the stand?

That's funny. lol How bad can it be? George messed up the first time he went up there, and it seems clear to many of us Z's contradictory statements to police the night of the shooting is part of the reason why the lead homicide detective found probable cause to charge him in the first place.

Did you really think that one through?

 

[Unabogie]

Orlando man given George Zimmerman’s cell number, gets death threats

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout...rge-zimmerman-cell-number-gets-131000364.html

From your link:

By the ninth day, Guy said he'd had enough and turned the phone over to an attorney. His lawyer has reportedly been unsuccessful in seeking damages for his client, but T-Mobile did credit Guy's account and waived the early termination fee.

Damages? What, is this person some sort of grifter who we may want to be wary of believing?

"I was not only afraid for my life, I was afraid for my mother's," said Guy, a 49-year-old man whom the newspaper reported has himself served prison time for drug trafficking.

Oh.

Yep.

 

[LTC8K6]

That's funny. lol How bad can it be? George messed up the first time he went up there, and it seems clear to many of us Z's contradictory statements to police the night of the shooting is part of the reason why the lead homicide detective found probable cause to charge him in the first place.

Did you really think that one through?

How did GZ mess up the first time he went up there?

I wasn't aware that GZ's statements had been released so that the public could make such judgements.

Serino's charge was apparently based on GZ getting out of the car, not on anything GZ said or any physical evidence.

 

[GWCarver]

Is it your understanding that judges get indictments far ahead of time and review them for exculpatory evidence in other jurisdictions? Because I've never heard of anything like that.

I've never heard of that either. I don't have any idea of what happens in other jurisdictions. Perhaps you haven't noticed that even the lawyers who offer opinions on this case have been stumbling around trying to get a handle on how things work in Florida. Like Dershowitz, for example.

 

[GWCarver]

I can't disagree with what you post too much. There are many factors I don't have enough insight into to adequately judge the situation, such as:
is de la rionda such a skilled attorney ?
if zimmerman that incompetent ?
how much is immunity from civil suits worth ?
etc.

Jeralyn says Zimmerman will get immunity if he is found not guilty at trial, even if he fails to convince the judge at the SYG hearing it was self-defense.

 

[Rare Truth]

How did GZ mess up the first time he went up there?

I wasn't aware that GZ's statements had been released so that the public could make such judgements.

Serino's charge was apparently based on GZ getting out of the car, not on anything GZ said or any physical evidence.

Tugboat on the stand: "I didn't know he was unarmed" Well, ya dumb ****, why would you remove yourself from the safety of the vehicle then? Do reasonable people expose themselves like that to armed people?

Tugboat on the stand: "I thought he was a little younger than I was"

Tugboat on the NEN: How old would you say he is? Zimmerman: About like his late teens. SPD: Late teens?
Zimmerman: Uh, huh.
He also referred to him as a "kid."


Those were all offered on his own, not even under cross. Guy is a mess on the stand.



It has been stated over and over again Z's story of how it went down, by the people that *have* seen his statements (and as relayed by his surrogates pumping the story for him) - his version is contradictory and does not corroborate with the evidence.


There are huge blocks blacked out of Serino's Capias, so you can't say you have any idea what it was based on in total.



He obviously wanted to charge him, in part, because - as we have seen ZIMMERMAN LIES. The State picked it up and punched it home. ZIMMERMAN LIES.

 

[LTC8K6]

Tugboat on the stand: "I didn't know he was unarmed" Well, ya dumb ****, why would you remove yourself from the safety of the vehicle then? Do reasonable people expose themselves like that to armed people?

Tugboat on the stand: "I thought he was a little younger than I was"

Tugboat on the NEN: How old would you say he is? Zimmerman: About like his late teens. SPD: Late teens?
Zimmerman: Uh, huh.
He also referred to him as a "kid."


Those were all offered on his own, not even under cross. Guy is a mess on the stand.



It has been stated over and over again Z's story of how it went down, by the people that *have* seen his statements (and as relayed by his surrogates pumping the story for him) - his version is contradictory and does not corroborate with the evidence.


There are huge blocks blacked out of Serino's Capias, so you can't say you have any idea what it was based on in total.



He obviously wanted to charge him, in part, because - as we have seen ZIMMERMAN LIES. The State picked it up and punched it home. ZIMMERMAN LIES.

I know those have been discussed in this thread before, and there's really nothing necessarily contradictory about them. You are choosing to look at them that way.

I can read what Serino said to the press about the evidence and GZ's statements...

 

[johnny karate]

Anyway, that is why I say in this case, there is a big problem with due process in Florida.

What you are talking about is a violation of Zimmerman's constitutional rights, and a highly illegal conspiracy that goes all the way to the governor of Florida.

It also happens to be a load of crap.

Unless you care to explain how such a blatant criminal enterprise is being pulled off under the scrutiny of the public eye. Or why Zimmerman's legal team have failed to lift a finger to do anything about this "travesty of justice".

 

[Rare Truth]

I know those have been discussed in this thread before, and there's really nothing necessarily contradictory about them. You are choosing to look at them that way.

I can read what Serino said to the press about the evidence and GZ's statements...

Serino's reports /capias request carries more weight than what he said to reporters after his boss told him nope.

It's an unwise man who pisses off his boss in the press.

 

[johnny karate]

I know those have been discussed in this thread before, and there's really nothing necessarily contradictory about them. You are choosing to look at them that way.

Actually, Zimmerman's two statements abut Martin's age are exactly contradictory. You can mitigate that contradiction, or deem it insignificant, but you can't deny it exists.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

That's funny. lol How bad can it be? George messed up the first time he went up there, and it seems clear to many of us Z's contradictory statements to police the night of the shooting is part of the reason why the lead homicide detective found probable cause to charge him in the first place.
Did you really think that one through?

I'm not terribly surprised you think your opinion is that much better than everyone elses

You are relying on Christopher Serino - “The best evidence we have is the testimony of George Zimmerman, and he says the decedent was the primary aggressor in the whole event,” Serino told the Sentinel March 16. “Everything I have is adding up to what he says.”"

Everything he has, except all the contradictions, right ?

You have evidence to back up the hilited part ?

I am not sure GZ 'messed up' anything. O’Mara noted that Zimmerman “didn’t want to defend himself, didn’t want to talk about the facts, but he had heard a request from the family, and that’s precisely what he wanted to address.”

 

[LTC8K6]

IIRC, Zimmerman's differences on TM's age and whether he was armed are related to the timing.

GZ thought TM was older before he got a better look at him. GZ thought TM might be armed when TM approached his vehicle with his hand in his waistband.

When TM got closer, GZ realized he was a teen and was not holding a gun.

That is my recollection of prior discussions.

 

[GWCarver]

What you are talking about is a violation of Zimmerman's constitutional rights, and a highly illegal conspiracy that goes all the way to the governor of Florida.

It also happens to be a load of crap.

Unless you care to explain how such a blatant criminal enterprise is being pulled off under the scrutiny of the public eye. Or why Zimmerman's legal team have failed to lift a finger to do anything about this "travesty of justice".

Your straw man my friend, is blowing in the wind...

Actually, there is only one little blurb in that whole post I can't prove, where I should have added an IMO. Why not just point that out?

 

[Dan O.]

Yeah. That's not going to happen. You can take it to the bank.

There will be no SYG immunity hearing.

Too late, O'Mara got there first and is already collecting interest.

 

[johnny karate]

Your straw man my friend, is blowing in the wind...

What straw man? You outlined a conspiracy to railroad Zimmerman that started with the governor and went all the way to the judges. Any attempt to railroad him would have to be a conspiracy involving all those people who are at the very least allowing it to happen.

You can't at the same time allege a man is publicly and very blatantly being stripped of his constitutional rights, and then claim it's somehow being done without the knowledge of the public officials who oversee such things.

That's the very definition of cognitive dissonance.

 

[Dancing David]

Norks aside. there is a good argument that the affidavit for probable cause (as far as it was used as a foundation for arrest) was executed illegally.

And your basis in law, statute and practice for that is?

Whether or not that is the responsibility of Angela Corey is another matter, I think, since she wasn't the affiant. Since she very publicly took responsibility for the investigation and decision to charge, it is reasonable to very publicly criticize her for the outcome. Imagine it - a prosecutor, under the badge of office, trying to threaten a person's employer unless they silence the employee. There's no way to defend it - even if Dershowitz is wrong.

The state has an affirmative obligation to include exculpatory evidence that it knows or a reasonable person would beleive to be true.

And teh statute that states that in this case is?

They do not have to include every excuse that could be contemplated by a suspect or even evidence that is in dispute, but they cannot omit the facts that would allow a neutral finder of fact (i.e. the magistrate) to weigh the matter. The SAO had an affirmative obligation to describe the injuries to Zimmerman and Martin and the claim of self defense. To misrepresent these facts circumvents the magistrate's duty as a check on the state's power.

Which magistrate is that?

The claim that the APC was insuffecient as an information for charges is less clear but again at least a reasonable argument can be made that the document does not establish within its four corners the elements of the crime charged.

I would like to see the legal documents and cases for your interpretation.

Prosecutors have considerable latitude and they must follow the law, so where is the the violation of Florida statute here?

It may be that what you say is correct, I would like to see the scaffolding of Florida statute and appeals case law.

 

[Rare Truth]

I'm not terribly surprised you think your opinion is that much better than everyone elses
...

So far my opinions have held up to scrutiny a hell of a lot more than your opinions, in my opinion.

 

[Rare Truth]

What straw man? You outlined a conspiracy to railroad Zimmerman that started withe governor and went all the way to the judges. Any attempt to railroad him would have to be a conspiracy involving all those people who are at the very least allowing it to happen.

You can't at the same time allege a man is publicly and very blatantly being stripped of his constitutional rights, and then claim it's somehow being done without the knowledge of the public officials who oversee such things.

That's the very definition of cognitive dissonance.

Day-um!

 

[Dcdrac]

Seems pretty clear to me that Zimmerman is his own worst enemy

Lies at his bondhearing, has a history of reckless violent behaviour

Just a matter of time before something like this happened quite clearly a danger to himself and others

 

[Dancing David]

Here is the entry I started with. Actually, I apologize for asking certain posters to review my recent posts, because when I clicked on my own handle and tried it, only posts through May showed up and they were in a format that made it difficult to figure out the subject.

__________________

Remember the first hearing, when Judge Herr thanked O'Mara for his ad-hoc appearance on the spur of the moment, and was so unfamiliar with the case that he didn't recognize Zimmerman, who was standing right next to O'Mara?

Here is a quote by Judge Herr from that brief hearing:

"I will also say, for the record, I just received here moments ago a two page affidavit signed by Investigators Gilbreath and O'Steen to stand for probable cause with a filing of an Information on this matter."

He goes on to say after reviewing the probable cause affidavit (the one he had received "moments ago"), he found there was probable cause supporting the Information that he had received the previous day.

That travesty of justice is, in Florida, a legal substitution for a Grand Jury or preliminary hearing.

And is this opinion or is there a basis in case law?

__________________

When you add in Corey's assertion that she doesn't have to place exculpatory information into the probable cause affidavit as long as she later provides it to the defense in discovery, even if the judge reviewed it closely it wouldn't matter because it only contains inculpatory information. That means the path that took the place of a Grand Jury or preliminary hearing in this case is simply a rubber stamp of Corey's paperwork.

Corey is an elected prosecutor who received this case directly from another elected official, the Governor. It was the direct result of an explosive political situation brewing in Florida. Corey had the power to cancel the pending Grand Jury for Zimmerman and replace it with a rubber stamp, and she did so. That means the minute the Governor handed Corey the case, Zimmerman was going to be charged with murder 2, there was no way to stop it, and no judge was going to look at the exculpatory evidence along the way.

I just realized that is why there are those who are saying Zimmerman is a political prisoner. I wouldn't go that far, but if the Governor of Florida wishes to indict a political enemy, he has the resources and the power to do it.

Anyway, that is why I say in this case, there is a big problem with due process in Florida.

And again where is this in violation of Florida state law, due process is a rather broad term and I would think that Corey is following general practice of policy.

Yet for this to be a violation of due process means that it has to violate Florida statute and Florida case law regarding these issues.

When you show that, and state which case law her practice violates, then you can state that it is a violation of Florida law on due process. However I will point out that law stands as it is practices and varies state by state. Subject to appeal. So I again ask you where is your case law to back this up?

Where in Florida statute and case law is Corey violating due process?

Now if what you want to say is that the judges actions and Corey's actions are one that you disagree with, that is a different statement. I am fairly certain that the judge in particular is very familiar with Florida case law and appeals rulings.


A violation of due process would be indicated by a violation of existing statute and apeals law interpretation.