Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[Cylinder]

Not sure how long it was before those pics were taken vs how long it takes for a bruise to show up. The black eyes are just beginning to show.

I wonder if someone was smart enough to take photos.

 

[LTC8K6]

Well, the new bond hearing is the 29th.

Hopefully they will clear up the issues and can move on to discussing the case itself.

 

[Dan O.]

I've heard that it's GZ running, and that it's wind noise in the mic.

How long do you think it is between the time GZ reports TM to be running, and GZ "runs" after him?

I think that TM has most likely already gone around the corner out of GZ's view. If GZ is running, it is, in my mind, only to get to a place where he can see where TM ran to, not to chase TM.

TM is already well out of range for GZ to even think about chasing, imo. GZ just hopes to see where TM disappears to, imo.

While GZ says he is following TM, I don't think he's actually anywhere near TM at all at that time.

Where do you think George is starting from, where is he parked, and what evidence arer you using to reach this conclusion?

 

[a_unique_person]

[qimg]http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/6289/headright.jpg[/qimg]
[qimg]http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/1962/headleft.jpg[/qimg]



"Pt. has abrasions to his forehead..."

SFD Resuce report

You should see the photos of the other guy.

 

[Dcdrac]

As GZ has lied about something as important as his bail bond money his credability is suspect to say the very least.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

You should see the photos of the other guy.

We can't, they haven't released them.

 

[Cylinder]

You should see the photos of the other guy.

Apparently we won't...it's the only item the media attorneys conceded. They argued that an in camera viewing would satisfy.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

As GZ has lied about something as important as his bail bond money his credability is suspect to say the very least.

What specific lie did GZ tell ?

The prosecutors knew about all the money, but it wasn't important enough for them to tell the judge at the bond hearing, was it ?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

George would have a view of the mailboxes form before he made the previous turn. Of course, it was getting dark. But there may also be some local lighting that would highlight Trayvon. It's also quite likely that George would take the scenic route to be better able to watch the neighborhood.

It's quite likely because you want it to be ?

The story is he was going to Target. He would have gone straight up his street to the front gate to get to target.
If nothing else, ockhams razor makes driving up his own street and seeing TM the better choice.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I'm not saying that Jeralyn Merritt is specifically biased, but wouldn't a defense attorney have a tendency to be more, you know, defense attorney minded?

If you don't think she is biased, why are you asking such a silly question ?

 

[Rare Truth]

We can't, they haven't released them.

Here ya go

 

[Cylinder]

Where do you think George is starting from, where is he parked...

Zimmerman described where he is parked in his call to the SPD dispatcher:

Zimmerman: If they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the club house, and uh, straight past the club house and make a left, and then they go past the mailboxes, that’s my truck…[unintelligible]

Dispatcher: What address are you parked in front of?

Zimmerman: I don’t know, it’s a cut through so I don’t know the address.

That places him on the east-west leg of twin trees, presumably facing west - since he's describing a view of the clubhouse. This view would be obstructed from everywhere but the northmost portion of north-south leg of Twin Trees before the dog leg.

SPD, on direction of Det. Santiago, ran all the plates on Twin Trees and presumably Retreat View - so the location of his truck should be well-documented.

 

[Dan O.]

Where do you think George is starting from, where is he parked...

Zimmerman described where he is parked in his call to the SPD dispatcher:

Zimmerman: If they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the club house, and uh, straight past the club house and make a left, and then they go past the mailboxes, that’s my truck…[unintelligible] ​

The "unintelligible" is an appropriate commentary on George's directions. However, you can go straight past the clubhouse, past the mailboxes and then the road makes a left. That I believe is where they would have found his truck.

Dispatcher: What address are you parked in front of?

Zimmerman: I don’t know, it’s a cut through so I don’t know the address.​

That places him on the east-west leg of twin trees, presumably facing west - since he's describing a view of the clubhouse. This view would be obstructed from everywhere but the northmost portion of north-south leg of Twin Trees before the dog leg.

I assumed at first that George was saying he was parked in front of the cut through that leads to the tee. But when he is first talking to the dispatcher, he is saying that Trayvon is at the clubhouse. That places George in his truck close to the west end of that leg. Right at the corner would offer the best view unobstructed by the trees.

Anywhere along that road he would always be in front of or nearly in front of some housing unit with an address. Either George is deliberately lying to the dispatcher or he simply doesn't know the name of this road and is calling the road itself a cut through

SPD, on direction of Det. Santiago, ran all the plates on Twin Trees and presumably Retreat View - so the location of his truck should be well-documented.

Unless the wife got to it first

 

[crimresearch]

I think that I might have failed to express myself clearly.

In itself I don't object to the right to defend yourself as per the example provided above. I do however think the person initiated the fight shouldn't be allowed to just walk free either.

Well it is a matter of degree. Obviously if someone is robbing a bank, and the guard draws a weapon and is shot first, no claim of self defense is going to hold up.

When 2 people put their hands on each other in anger, it is well understood that there is alway the chance of switching from aggressor to victim, and vice versa.

 

[Grey2000]

Don't think this has been posted before - apologies if it has.

Can't post the url as I've not got 15 posts but it can be found on Newsmax.com

Zimmerman Prosecutor Threatens to Sue Harvard... For Alan Derschowitz's Criticism of Her

Alan Derschowitz -

State Attorney Angela Corey, the prosecutor in the George Zimmerman case, recently called the Dean of Harvard Law School to complain about my criticism of some of her actions.

She was transferred to the Office of Communications and proceeded to engage in a 40-minute rant, during which she threatened to sue Harvard Law School, to try to get me disciplined by the Bar Association and to file charges against me for libel and slander.

<SNIP>

If Angela Corey doesn’t like the way freedom of expression operates in the United States, there are plenty of countries where truthful criticism of prosecutors and other government officials result in disbarment, defamation suits and even criminal charges.

We do not want to become such a country.

Edited by Locknar: 

SNIPed, breach of rule 4.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

[..]

Dispatcher: What address are you parked in front of?
Zimmerman: I don’t know, it’s a cut through so I don’t know the address.

Anywhere along that road he would always be in front of or nearly in front of some housing unit with an address. Either George is deliberately lying to the dispatcher or he simply doesn't know the name of this road and is calling the road itself a cut through

The most simple explanation is address = house number. This is clear from the context of parked in front of -vs- parked on. One is parked in front of a particular house number, on a particular street.

He does know the street name, but not the house number, because he is not in front of a house with an address, he is behind the houses, so no house number is available.

I've never understood the claim that GZ did not know what street he was on.

 

[Unabogie]

The most simple explanation is address = house number. This is clear from the context of parked in front of -vs- parked on. One is parked in front of a particular house number, on a particular street.

He does know the street name, but not the house number, because he is not in front of a house with an address, he is behind the houses, so no house number is available.

I've never understood the claim that GZ did not know what street he was on.

Then maybe I'm confused. If, by this time, George is already behind the houses (near the T) at the time the dispatcher asks him for an address, then how does that square with him only getting out of his car to LOOK for an address. He's already there for some other reason, right? Which is to FOLLOW Trayvon, which squares much better with DD's testimony.

 

[Unabogie]

Don't think this has been posted before - apologies if it has.

Can't post the url as I've not got 15 posts but it can be found on Newsmax.com

Zimmerman Prosecutor Threatens to Sue Harvard... For Alan Derschowitz's Criticism of Her

Yes, that has already been posted, so a few things:

1. If you can't post a link, maybe wait until you can source your material before quoting anything?
2. I think you can only post snippets of articles, not the whole thing. You may want to edit that down.
3. Welcome to the forum!

 

[LTC8K6]

Then maybe I'm confused. If, by this time, George is already behind the houses (near the T) at the time the dispatcher asks him for an address, then how does that square with him only getting out of his car to LOOK for an address. He's already there for some other reason, right? Which is to FOLLOW Trayvon, which squares much better with DD's testimony.

GZ is already there to watch Trayvon from a distance.

GZ has driven well past TM and turned around to watch TM. GZ's vehicle is in the area close to the T long before TM walks that way. So GZ can't have driven over there to follow TM. GZ was there first.

Unless I misunderstood your post.

 

[johnny karate]

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/6289/headright.jpg
http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/1962/headleft.jpg



"Pt. has abrasions to his forehead..."

SFD Resuce report

Wow. Where to start...

First of all, as has been already pointed out, abrasions =/= bruising.

Secondly, most of those little blue arrows are pointing to areas that are decidedly not Zimmerman's forehead.

And third, I'm not sure what most of those little blue arrows are supposed to be pointing to.

You issued this challenge "Is it your opinion that a single blow caused bruising to both sides of Zimmerman's forehead?"

This assumes two facts: That Zimmerman had bruising on his forehead, and that that bruising was caused by being punched.

To corroborate those assumed facts you provided a photo that shows us what might possibly be abrasions that are for the most part on the side of his head.

So do you have any evidence that conclusively demonstrates Zimmerman was repeatedly punched, or are we just supposed to take your word for it?

So you assert that Zimmerman could have suffered an indefinite amount of head injuries of that thype without suffering great bodily injury? Would 10 more be safe?

I don't recall asserting that. Nor do I recall assuming as fact the number of injuries that you have manufactured independent of any medical documentation.

Minor bleeding. That's a medical report, you can't change descriptions like that.

So a wound with minor bleeding isn't a minor wound?

Of course, we know by the photo that the paramedic failed to document another laceration to his head (the circular one) and presumably some disturbing swelling at the base of his skull, though the swelling could have presented after the assessment.

I like how you chastise me for misquoting the medical report before telling us how the medical report was probably wrong anyway.

Luckily we have a record of the injuries as well as an eyewitness who reports Martin on top of Zimmerman "fighting" and another who reports the same with Martin either hitting or restraining Zimmerman on concrete. That's a very specific claim by Zimmerman and very specific eyewitness statement. You either have to throw W6 on the Conspiracy Train or admit that a substantial point in Zimmerman's narrative is a fact beyond change.

The medical documentation doesn't match what you claim. Nor do witness reports. To refresh your memory, here's what Witness #6 had to say:

I can't truly see how close they were to each other; if he was hitting him, or if he was trying to hold him down in that position until cops got there.

Yeah, that's a real slam dunk for the "Martin was beating the crap out of Zimmerman" camp.

Again, do you have any evidence that conclusively demonstrates Zimmerman was repeatedly punched, or are we just supposed to take your word for it?

Not sure how long it was before those pics were taken vs how long it takes for a bruise to show up. The black eyes are just beginning to show.

He might have looked a lot worse for wear the next day.

That would be awesome for you. That way, there would be actual evidence for the thing you already believe.