The Incredible odds of fulfilled bible prophecy

[pakeha]

...I believe God could have given us crystal clear prophecies if he wanted to, but then it would be too much like he was performing tricks to make us love Him. He is being more subtle and giving us just enough evidence without hitting us over the head with cold technical fulfilled facts.

And that evidence is...?

 

[Akhenaten]

And the "generation did not pass" until they saw the kingdom.

Where exactly was this kingdom located, DOC? How did the Romans react to it suddenly springing up in the middle of their empire?

When Christ died and said "It is finished", I interpret that as his mission of paying the price for sin was done.

You don't even know that this alleged person said anything at all so your interpretations of those things aren't worth the paper they weren't written on.

When He rose from the dead, the Kingdom began.

According to the evidence, neither of these things happened.

Many in that generation did see the risen Christ and the beginning of this Kingdom.

No, that's just a fairytale.

I believe God could have given us crystal clear prophecies if he wanted to, but then it would be too much like he was performing tricks to make us love Him.

You seem to be saying that this thing of yours has decided that pretending to be an incompetent, incomprehensible bumbler is more likely to gain followers than actually demonstrating that it's running things.

Even if it existed, it would be dumber than dirt.

He is being more subtle and giving us just enough evidence without hitting us over the head with it.

Subtle, DOC? The evidence is zero. There's nothing even remotely subtle about it.

 

[Craig B]

And the "generation did not pass" until they saw the kingdom. When Christ died and said "It is finished", I interpret that as his mission of paying the price for sin was done. When He rose from the dead, the Kingdom began. Many in that generation did see the risen Christ and the beginning of this Kingdom.

Not according to 2 Peter 3 they didn't!

3 Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.” .. 10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.

 

[ddt]

And the "generation did not pass" until they saw the kingdom. When Christ died and said "It is finished", I interpret that as his mission of paying the price for sin was done. When He rose from the dead, the Kingdom began. Many in that generation did see the risen Christ and the beginning of this Kingdom.

Playing fast and loose with the Bible text? The phrase "This generation will not pass" comes from Mark 13 (or Luke 21), and contains some prophecies of Jesus considering what will happen in the apostles' life time. Here is the chapter from Mark:

The Signs of the Times and the End of the Age

3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John, and Andrew asked Him privately, 4 “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign when all these things will be fulfilled?”

5 And Jesus, answering them, began to say: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 6 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am He,’ and will deceive many. [...] And there will be earthquakes in various places, and there will be famines and troubles.

[...] 10 And the gospel must first be preached to all the nations.

The Great Tribulation

19 For in those days there will be tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, nor ever shall be. 20 And unless the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake, whom He chose, He shortened the days.

21 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ‘Look, He is there!’ do not believe it. 22 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 23 But take heed; see, I have told you all things beforehand.

The Coming of the Son of Man

24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

The Parable of the Fig Tree

28 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender, and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 29 So you also, when you see these things happening, know that it[f] is near—at the doors! 30 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

I cut down a bit on the text, but all those things should have taken place before, say 100 AD (I give you a lot of leeway here). Did the apostles bring the gospel to the Inuit or the Aborigines of Australia in that time? Where are the earthquakes, the darkening of the sun etc.?

I believe God could have given us crystal clear prophecies if he wanted to, but then it would be too much like he was performing tricks to make us love Him. He is being more subtle and giving us just enough evidence without hitting us over the head with cold technical fulfilled facts.

God apparently could give clear-cut instructions to Noah, Abraham and Moses. Why not with these prophecies? Had he gone senile in the interim? Or is he just a dick? After all, if you want all people to believe in you, isn't it much better to come with incontrovertible proof of your existence rather than with vague assertions?

 

[Akhenaten]

When Christ died and said "It is finished", I interpret that as his mission of paying the price for sin was done.

This deserves a little post all of its own.

Are you sure these were the alleged Jesus' last words, DOC?

Reference please.

 

[pakeha]

Joseph Haydn had a different view on this, DOC
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Seven_Last_Words_of_Christ

 

[Akhenaten]

Joseph Haydn had a different view on this, DOC
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Seven_Last_Words_of_Christ

That's a beautiful piece. Thank you very much.

Please accept this muffin that catsmate1 gave me. It's still quite fresh.

 

[pakeha]

Pharaoh is generous, indeed.

 

[psionl0]

And the "generation did not pass" until they saw the kingdom. When Christ died and said "It is finished", I interpret that as his mission of paying the price for sin was done. When He rose from the dead, the Kingdom began. Many in that generation did see the risen Christ and the beginning of this Kingdom.

Are you seriously suggesting that in Matthew 24 (or Mark 13) Jesus is referring to his coming crucifixion and rising from the dead and not the tribulation and the second coming of Jesus?

 

[Craig B]

And the "generation did not pass" until they saw the kingdom. When Christ died and said "It is finished", I interpret that as his mission of paying the price for sin was done. When He rose from the dead, the Kingdom began. Many in that generation did see the risen Christ and the beginning of this Kingdom.

Only in John does he say that, and John's account is most certainly very remote from historical possibility. Mark and Matthew make him quote Psalms 22:1:

My God, my God! Why have you forsaken me?

How do you interpret this, in terms of the Kingdom coming at the point of Jesus' death?

 

[Fast Eddie B]

I believe God could have given us crystal clear prophecies if he wanted to, but then it would be too much like he was performing tricks to make us love Him.

Does this not go against the very title/topic of the thread, that God gave us prophesies that can be proven accurate via math?

 

[joobz]

He is being more subtle and giving us just enough evidence without hitting us over the head with cold technical fulfilled facts.

He is so subtle that he hasn't demonstrated any fulfilled prophecies.

that's good.
The shear odds of having so many prophecies failed are staggering. You would think at least one would have come true. But there hasn't been a single fulfilled prophecy presented in this thread.

That's amazing!

 

[Lucian]

That's a beautiful piece. Thank you very much.

Please accept this muffin that catsmate1 gave me. It's still quite fresh.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/162724fb2ad0e1c8ec.png[/qimg]​

Is there any way I could get a muffin for this musical prophecy?

 

[carlitos]

Does this not go against the very title/topic of the thread, that God gave us prophesies that can be proven accurate via math?

Yup.

This PHD, astrophysicist, says the odds of all the bible prophecy that has been fulfilled occurring by chance is 1 in 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000...
I'll stop there but the 1 should be followed by 2000 zeros

 

[Elizabeth I]

And the "generation did not pass" until they saw the kingdom. When Christ died and said "It is finished", I interpret that as his mission of paying the price for sin was done. When He rose from the dead, the Kingdom began. Many in that generation did see the risen Christ and the beginning of this Kingdom.

Doesn't it say that the Son of Man will return "in all his glory"? How does that square with sneaking out of a grave before dawn?

 

[Craig B]

Doesn't it say that the Son of Man will return "in all his glory"? How does that square with sneaking out of a grave before dawn?

After his emergence from the tomb, he was so much "in his glory" that Mary Magdalen mistook him for the graveyard gardener, if we are to believe John's gospel. As an inauguration of the Kingdom of God, this leaves something to be desired.

 

[pakeha]

Is there any way I could get a muffin for this musical prophecy?

Whatever the pharaoh's decision, it's a great choice!

 

[Akhenaten]

Is there any way I could get a muffin for this musical prophecy?

It certainly deserves a muffin, I think, but catsmate1 is in charge of those and I only had the one left.

I am, however, the Ponylandistani Culture Minister, so all is not lost.


Have a pony.

​

 

[tsig]

And the "generation did not pass" until they saw the kingdom. When Christ died and said "It is finished", I interpret that as his mission of paying the price for sin was done. When He rose from the dead, the Kingdom began. Many in that generation did see the risen Christ and the beginning of this Kingdom.

I believe God could have given us crystal clear prophecies if he wanted to, but then it would be too much like he was performing tricks to make us love Him. He is being more subtle and giving us just enough evidence without hitting us over the head with cold technical fulfilled facts.

So the title of this thread is a lie?

(italics added)

 

[Lucian]

It certainly deserves a muffin, I think, but catsmate1 is in charge of those and I only had the one left.

I am, however, the Ponylandistani Culture Minister, so all is not lost.


Have a pony.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/209954fc3a4586c816.gif[/qimg]​

Yay! A pony!