Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[Natural Born Skeptic]

Probably from the same place as Trayvon Martin's 'unmarked hands'.

You must have beaten my by 10 seconds .

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

The broken nose, IMO, is merely corroborative evidence. In itself, it doesn't show a reasonable fear of death or GBH. It's the head injuries that make this more than a fist fight.

I think the main relevance is that:
1. We are once again seeing evidence that seems to supports GZ's story, or at least parts of it.
2. So much for the helpless 12-year old that was outweighed by 100 pounds. A broken nose, two black eyes, head lacerations. I wonder if the media will be offering an apology?

You know what? The last sentence above was meant in sarcasm, but in fact isn't that what the media should be doing? Shouldn't this case in fact be causing massive self-examination by the media? When the head of a bank like JP Morgan screws up they at least have to pretend to be sorry and doing soul searching and mea culpa. But when the media reports lies and distortions and inflames an entire country because of bad reporting, where the hell is some accountability?

 

[Cylinder]

Shouldn't this case in fact be causing massive self-examination by the media?

Good luck with that. They will be responsible for the lives lost in the aftermath of this fiasco.

Meanwhile, we get gems like this from the comments section of the Miami Herald:

Wait for the FOI requests from the press and we'll get a better picture of the events of that night and the true extent of Zimmerman's injuries. I believe Zimmerman confronted Martin and Martin punched Zimmerman and Zimmerman fell, hit his head then got up and shot Martin. Martin may have even attempted to help Zimmerman back to his feet after he punched him, and the fatally injured Martin may have fallen on top of Zimmerman. That would be consistent with the second degree murder charge.

Wow.

 

[Cylinder]

Zimmerman’s father: Our lives will never be the same

The high school student’s death exploded into a politically volatile case, the kind that drives thousands to the streets in protest — the kind that brings hate mail. Rattled by death threats and shaken by personal information posted on the web, Zimmerman, his wife and his mother-in-law with Alzheimer’s are now on the run, waiting for the trial they are convinced will exonerate their son.

[snip]

He believes medical records and photos will prove his son was injured by Trayvon when the two met in a gated community’s dark pathway. He said voice tests will show George Zimmerman didn’t lie and an eyewitness will back up his account. The girl who claims to have been on the phone talking to the teenager when the incident occurred will be proved a liar, Zimmerman insists.

[snip]

After giving up his gun, clothes and shoes to police, George Zimmerman gave at least three statements. Pictures were taken of his injuries. “I saw him the next morning. He looked like hell. I said, ‘Who beat you up?’ Zimmerman said. “His nose was swollen, he had a protective thing over it, and he had a cut lip and two cuts on the back of his head.”

Zimmerman insisted that no one in the Sanford Police or the Seminole County prosecutor’s office knew he was a retired judge. He denied ever meeting with the original prosecutor on the case, Norm Wolfinger. He said he only met once with a prosecutor’s investigator, when he gave a sworn statement insisting that the voice he heard on a 911 tape calling for help was George’s.

[snip]

“I look at him and I see someone who goes to work every day, goes to school and is married,” Zimmerman said. He harbors no ill will toward Trayvon Martin’s family, but acknowledges that he’s angry at special prosecutor Angela Corey and Benjamin Crump, the Martin family attorney.

“No parent can completely control their child. I believe Trayvon made a bad decision,” he said. “When I was young, I had my issues. I would have liked to see Trayvon change his life and get married and achieve his dreams. He made a decision that changed that, and things didn’t work out for anybody.”

I'm assuming that the elder Zimmerman is referring to the voice stress test, which probably won't be admissible in court. He may well have made the stitches claim through his own observations the day after the shooting.

 

[RandFan]

Zimmerman’s father: Our lives will never be the same

I'm assuming that the elder Zimmerman is referring to the voice stress test, which probably won't be admissible in court. He may well have made the stitches claim through his own observations the day after the shooting.

Hopefully others will see this as a learning experience. Call the police and let them do their job.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

Deleted due to incorrect link.

 

[Dancing David]

When somebody has been arrested, it really is irrelevant whether or not race is reported because the mug shot is released to the public.

Don't you mean 'when', I can think of all the crime reports in my local paper and TV stations, no mug shots.

Where is your data and evidence coming from?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Are you claiming that they do not have any history besides the "one incident" you heard of?
In other words, are you claiming that you researched it and only found one, or are you claiming that you only know about the one?

That's the point. I am not making any claims. You are. You appear to want pretend it's not a claim because you wrote "I thought", followed by 'If so...".

It's almost like you chose to ignore my entire post and instead responded with camouflage about whether or not my claim was true.

You mean whether or not your claim is actually true is irrelevant ?

ETA: I would also like to make clear that, even if the SPD has a disgusting history, I am not saying that is definite proof, or even that it is likely, that they did anything wrong with this investigation.

Then what exactly was the point of your post ?
Maybe they did a good job, maybe they didn't. Maybe we can assume they did a good job, maybe we can't. ta-da !

I am only saying that, if true, it would not be proper to say "there is no reason" to assume they didn't do a good job.

To err is human. The SPD is composed of humans. Therefor, it is never ok to assume they conducted a mistake free investigation. Therefor, there is always a possibility they didn't do a good job. Therefor, no matter the history, it would be wrong to ever assume they did a good job.

 

[Skepticemea]

Anyone seen this (apologies if posted previously)

http://www.prwatch.org/node/11509

 

[Cylinder]

Anyone seen this (apologies if posted previously)

http://www.prwatch.org/node/11509

Yea - pretty tacky, IYAM. Gun Broker isn't really getting the heat for this, though, since they are an auction site. When they saw that the content violated their TOS, the item was removed and the user deleted.

 

[Cylinder]

Here is the PDF of the 8 page summary of discovery evidence. What seems most interesting is the timeline of sworn statements.

 

[Dan O.]

Yea - pretty tacky, IYAM. Gun Broker isn't really getting the heat for this, though, since they are an auction site. When they saw that the content violated their TOS, the item was removed and the user deleted.

Is Gun Broker holding the proceeds from the sales?

 

[Cylinder]

2-26 (Day of shooting):
W3 - 911 Call
W5 - 911 Call
W6 - 911 Call, Audio statement (Serino), Written statement (Alaya)
W11 - 911 Call, Written statement (Wagner)
W13 - Audio statement (Serino), Written statement (Unknown)
W14 - 911 Call
W15 - 911 Call
W16 - Written statement (Mead)
W18 - 911 Call, Audio statement (Serino), Written statement (Mead)
W19 - 911 Call
W20 - 911 Call, Written statement (Wagner)

3-1:
W1 - Audio statement (Serino)
W2 - Audio statement (Serino)
W5 - Audio statement (Serino)
W16 - Audio statement (Serino)

3-2
W5 - Audio statement (Serino)
W11 - Audio statement (Serino)
W16 - Audio statement (Serino)
W20 - Audio statement (Serino)

3-5:
W14 - Audio statement (Serino)

3-8: Crump press conference brings media attention to case

3-9:
W2 - Audio statement (Serino)

3-10:
W19 - Audio statement (Serino)

3-16:
W18: Written statement to private investigator named John Wright

3-19: Florida Gov. Scott and DOJ announce investigations

3-19:
W3 - Audio statement (FDLE/SAO)
W11 - Audio statement (FDLE/SAO)
W20 - Audio Statement (FDLE/SAO)
W21 - Audio Statement (FDLE/SAO)
Dorival - Audio Statement (FDLE/SAO)
R. Zimmerman - 2 Audio statements (FDLE/SAO)

3-20:
W1 - Audio Statement (FDLE/SAO)
W2 - Audio Statement (FDLE/SAO)
W6 - Audio Statement (FDLE/SAO)
W9 - Audio statement (SAO)
W12 - Audio Statement (FDLE/SAO)
W13 - Audio Statement (FDLE/SAO)
W17 - Audio Statement (FDLE/SAO)

3-22:
W22 - Audio statemnt (SAO)

3-24:
Livingston - Audio Statement (FDLE)
O'Rourke - Audio Statement (FDLE)
Rochefort - Audio Statement (FDLE)
Turner - Audio Statement (FDLE)

3-26:
W6 - Audio Statement (SAO)
W12 - Audio Statement (SAO)

3-27:
Brandy - Audio Statement (FDLE)

4-2:
W8 - Audio Statement (SAO), previous undated statement to Crump

 

[Cylinder]

Is Gun Broker holding the proceeds from the sales?

They wouldn't be able to do that, right?

 

[crimresearch]

Here is the PDF of the 8 page summary of discovery evidence. What seems most interesting is the timeline of sworn statements.

Hmmm... 22 witnesses?

And Primeau and Owen. Kenneth Marr seems to be an acoustics person, and Hiro Nakatone is 'speaker recognition'.

And cell phone records for Trayvon Martin going from 2 months before, to one week past his death.

Pretty wide net as usual, let's wait and see what gets admitted, and how it is presented, and what the defense has.

 

[Cylinder]

Pretty wide net as usual...

Yea, Florida has open discovery so that's basically the contents of the SAO file - inculpatory, exculpatory and indifferent.

 

[GWCarver]

Here are two quotes with regard to questions about Zimmerman's getting stitched up.
First, Zimmerman's father:

“They were not huge gashes,” the father said. “When he went to the doctor the next day, he said he could stitch it, but that he would have to recut it since it had started to heal.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/02/u...rompts-a-review-of-ideals.html?pagewanted=all

Next, Zimmerman's lawyer at the time:

"Sonner said the gash on the back of Zimmerman's head probably was serious enough for stitches, but he waited too long for treatment so the wound was already healing."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/28/trayvon-martin-zimmerman-supporters_n_1384931.html

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

And Primeau and Owen. Kenneth Marr seems to be an acoustics person, and Hiro Nakatone is 'speaker recognition'.

Neophyte question.

1. Primeau and Owen's names are listed as witnesses??

2. Any guess on whether they've talked to them or are just listing them because of their statements to the press?

3. I assume Omara can protest letting those jokers testify since their statements are not backed up by current forensic standards?

I'm just stunned those two woo meisters are being listed, I now have complete and total contempt for the prosecution, this is biasing me, if they are willing to stoop to this I am going to have a very hard time believing anything they claim.

 

[crimresearch]

Neophyte question.

1. Primeau and Owen's names are listed as witnesses??

2. Any guess on whether they've talked to them or are just listing them because of their statements to the press?

3. I assume Omara can protest letting those jokers testify since their statements are not backed up by current forensic standards?

I'm just stunned those two woo meisters are being listed, I now have complete and total contempt for the prosecution, this is biasing me, if they are willing to stoop to this I am going to have a very hard time believing anything they claim.

http://www.talkleft.com/legal/zimmdiscovery.pdf

Witnesses are listed by number.

Those 2 are listed all by themselves as 'Other'.

I would be amazed if they were brought in purely because of something they said in the paper, I would expect that they had made some claims in communications with the SAO. If news reports alone were the criteria, then Jesse Jackson would be listed.

And IIRC, Owen's software is so new and untested, that it is very likely to be challenged by the defense under Frye. General audio recognition (which the 2 FBI folks deal in) is not likely to be kept out.

 

[LTC8K6]

Neophyte question.

1. Primeau and Owen's names are listed as witnesses??

2. Any guess on whether they've talked to them or are just listing them because of their statements to the press?

3. I assume Omara can protest letting those jokers testify since their statements are not backed up by current forensic standards?

I'm just stunned those two woo meisters are being listed, I now have complete and total contempt for the prosecution, this is biasing me, if they are willing to stoop to this I am going to have a very hard time believing anything they claim.

Hopefully they are just part of "everything".