Founder of Sea Shepherd Arrested in Germany

[Dessi]

NoahFence++

I usually end up giving a few hundred dollars to Sea Shepard Society every year. I think, especially for what they're doing, direct action really helps, and it brings the issue of whale hunting into the mainstream, and puts huge amount of international pressure on nations which permit research commercial whaling.

 

[Checkmite]

It's wrong.


Its part of the fleet illegally whaling in protected waters. Just because you don't want to see what's really happening, doesn't mean it's not actually happening.

I'm sorry, I don't understand.

If an activity is legal but one feels it's still wrong, one is not allowed to simply declare it illegal, then attack vessels engaged in it while claiming to be "enforcing maritime law". See how that doesn't work? International Maritime Law is not Sea Shepherd's Personal Maritime Law.

 

[NoahFence]

Using A loophole *IS* to on the legal side.

Again, "legal" does not equal "right".

But rather than admit it , and admit the vigilant were in the wrong (since they were ramming people doing LEGAL stuff) , you still pretend the shepherd ******** were in the right.

On the flip side of the coin, not everything that is illegal is wrong.

I am glad the guy is headed to a place where he can't put other in danger.

And I'm glad his current address doesn't matter. There are a TON of people ready to pick up the mantle.

 

[Howie Felterbush]

It means that they only people who CAN do something about it are groups like Sea Shepherd. That's what it means. And since they're they only ones who seem to want to enforce the ban on commercial whaling in the Southern Ocean, they're the ones who get my support.

As far as I'm concerned the Japanese whalers can get all their ships sunk. The day the Nissan Maru slips beneath the waves will be a banner day indeed.

No.

When you interfere with a legal activity, no matter how right you think you are, you are breaking the law. As far as the law is concerned, they are pirates, and could be treated as such. Count yourself lucky that Japanese whalers aren't outfitted with machine guns...

 

[lionking]

It's a multi million dollar slice of the Japanese economy.

And the whale harvest is well within the sustainable yield, so it isn't harmful to the ecology. Tuna, I'm not so sure.

That's it. I really can't understand the fuss about whales. Minke whales are the cows of the sea.

 

[NoahFence]

I'm sorry, I don't understand.

If an activity is legal but one feels it's still wrong, one is not allowed to simply declare it illegal, then attack vessels engaged in it while claiming to be "enforcing maritime law". See how that doesn't work? International Maritime Law is not Sea Shepherd's Personal Maritime Law.

Commercial whaling in the Southern Ocean IS illegal. That's exactly what they're doing. Spending a few extra yen to paint "RESEARCH" on the side of your ship doesn't change that. They're not fooling anybody!

Well, I guess they must be fooling some, or it wouldn't be an issue.

 

[Noztradamus]

Originally Posted by Checkmite
It's legal.

It's wrong.

Yeah, many things that are legal are wrong, and vice versa

Its part of the fleet illegally whaling in protected waters. Just because you don't want to see what's really happening, doesn't mean it's not actually happening.

And just because you don't like what is happening, doesn't mean it can't happen

And the "Southern Ocean Whale Sanctury" has no force in International Law, and most of the world's governments want it that way. If the International Court of Justice knows what good for it, it will acknowledge that.

 

[Checkmite]

Commercial whaling in the Southern Ocean IS illegal. That's exactly what they're doing. Spending a few extra yen to paint "RESEARCH" on the side of your ship doesn't change that.

Well obviously it does, doesn't it? Because research vessels ARE allowed to take whales in the southern ocean aren't they?

Was this vessel engaged in whaling when it was rammed by the Steve Irwin? Didn't look that way to me...

 

[Aepervius]

It means that they only people who CAN do something about it are groups like Sea Shepherd. That's what it means. And since they're they only ones who seem to want to enforce the ban on commercial whaling in the Southern Ocean, they're the ones who get my support.

As far as I'm concerned the Japanese whalers can get all their ships sunk. The day the Nissan Maru slips beneath the waves will be a banner day indeed.

I am frankly glad a lot of people don't think like you. Imagine how society would be like if those vigilanty decided to correct what they see as wrong, but is otherwise perfectely legal ? I mean, some people see gay life as wrong, so what's to stop one of those "gay shepherd" in a car simply ram a few of those type to teach them god fear or something. Same with those "upitty black", sure it is now legal that they are on equal footing with WASP, but hey, some people see that as morally wrong, and ramming a few might teach them. Or even those who have adulterous sex. That is so wrong, but legal, but let us ignore that and use "red A shepherd" cruise around, pickup those adulterous people and brand them. Illegal I know, but wrong is wrong.

Wright ?

See this is why in a civil society we have things called law, and a process to change those laws, and why vigilanty are seen as criminal. What one is legally entitled to, another might find wrong. And ocne you start that way, there is soon non turning back.

 

[NoahFence]

No.

When you interfere with a legal activity, no matter how right you think you are, you are breaking the law. As far as the law is concerned, they are pirates, and could be treated as such. Count yourself lucky that Japanese whalers aren't outfitted with machine guns...

SSCS flies the flag of a couple of countries. Shooting them is not a good idea.

Are they pirates? Hell yes they are.

 

[Checkmite]

SSCS flies the flag of a couple of countries. Shooting them is not a good idea.

If a private vessel is deliberately trying to ram you, shooting in self defense is 100% legal no matter what flag the vessel is flying.

Flying the flag of more than one country however is illegal.

 

[Aepervius]

SSCS flies the flag of a couple of countries. Shooting them is not a good idea.

Are they pirates? Hell yes they are.

That is an interresting admission.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy

Scroll down or search for "singapour". I hope for them they are not caught "pirating" around whalling ship near singapour.

Also scroll to : Self protection measures and increased patrol

Using weapon against pirate is perfectely acceptable.


Oh and about your flag protection ?

"Because of universal jurisdiction, action can be taken against pirates without objection from the flag state of the pirate vessel. "

 

[Howie Felterbush]

SSCS flies the flag of a couple of countries. Shooting them is not a good idea.

Are they pirates? Hell yes they are.

No. They're idiots, but they can be treated like pirates, if the Japanese decide to. Then your donations will go towards things like first aid and burial at sea instead of buying cool skull-and-crossbones hoodies for fugly hippie chicks.

 

[portlandatheist]

I wonder why these jerks don't target the Inuit in Barrow Alaska who harvest around 80 Bowheads per year. They would be much easier targets than the Japanese in their small boats:

I was lucky enough to be up in Barrow when they caught one and spent six or so hours out on the ice as they brought this whale in:

I think South Park said it best:

An unorganized incompetent media whore who thought lying to everyone was OK as long as it served his cause

Paul Watson endangers his own crew and the crew's general incompetence makes for good comedy but its only a matter of time before one of these activists gets themselves killed.

 

[Howie Felterbush]

Paul Watson endangers his own crew and the crew's general incompetence makes for good comedy but its only a matter of time before one of these activists gets themselves killed.

I'm not the kind of guy who wishes death on people, but in this case I'll keep my fingers crossed. It would be pretty cool if one of the Sea Shepherds went over the side and was savagely mauled by a whale.

 

[NoahFence]

If a private vessel is deliberately trying to ram you, shooting in self defense is 100% legal no matter what flag the vessel is flying.

I agree. I never said what SSCS does is safe.

Flying the flag of more than one country however is illegal.

Different ships, different flags.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

uncooperative

And that's the evidence of "authorities" not doing a damn thing. They're afraid of Japan. The crew of the Ady Gil was resting on the outside of the ship - it wasn't a matter of maintaing their course and speed. They were just sitting there. The video doesn't lie. The video taken from the Ady Gil shows this quite clearly.

It sounds as if Japan was not cooperating with the investigation, which kept the investigators from drawing a more definite conclusion. I don't like what little I have read of Sea Shepherd's tactics, but I am inclined to put the bulk of the blame on the Japanese vessel in this instance.

 

[NoahFence]

I wonder why these jerks don't target the Inuit in Barrow Alaska who harvest around 80 Bowheads per year. They would be much easier targets than the Japanese in their small boats:

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=390&pictureid=6040[/qimg]

I was lucky enough to be up in Barrow when they caught one and spent six or so hours out on the ice as they brought this whale in:

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=390&pictureid=6039[/qimg]

I think South Park said it best:


Paul Watson endangers his own crew and the crew's general incompetence makes for good comedy but its only a matter of time before one of these activists gets themselves killed.

Is commercial whaling banned in Barrow?

Look at the documentation from either side in this fight. Japan isn't even hiding the fact they're commercially whaling. Not with any serious effort at least. You should see the documents they pass off as "research". It's a friggin joke.

JARPA was supposed to last 16 years. And it did. Then what happened? JARPA II of course! They gave themselves permits to do this commercial whaling, in the Southern Ocean sanctuary that each and every country in the International Whaling Commission created. Well, all but one country. Betcha can't figure out who didn't vote for it!

http://www.whaling.jp/english/qa.html

Apparently that's the website if the "Bad Guys" if you will. Read it. It's a friggin joke.

 

[AlaskaBushPilot]

They don't need to.

This isn't Greenpeace, where you put flowers into your hair and sing songs and hope that telling people not to do something actually works. SSCS has never and will never tell you one thing and do another. They're an action group, not a protest group.

Hilarious delusion. He's explained clearly that lying is perfectly acceptable to him, so dupes who believe what he says are fools.

 

[Macgyver1968]

They don't need to.

This isn't Greenpeace, where you put flowers into your hair and sing songs and hope that telling people not to do something actually works. SSCS has never and will never tell you one thing and do another. They're an action group, not a protest group.

So what gives them the right to take action, and place the lives of the Japanese sailors in danger by purposefully ramming their ship? If a Japanese sailor had been crushed to death by the bow of the Steve Irwin...would that have been murder?