Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[Natural Born Skeptic]

What?????

Grabbed the holster and left fingerprints? Inside Zimmerman's pants?

I wonder if the detectives thought to check for fingerprints on George's junk?

Where in the world does this come from?

The Benny Hill school of forensic science?

 

[johnny karate]

Once again, I did not say anything contradictory about the investigations.

Sure you did:

As far as I can tell, they did a normal thorough investigation of a shooting, even with GZ's self defense claim.

The SPD investigation was still going on.

An ongoing investigation is by definition an incomplete investigation. And a through investigation, by definition, cannot be incomplete.

 

[johnny karate]

You are also doing the whole, it's possible, so it's probable, so it happened thing.

I've never made the argument that "it's possible, so it's probable, so it happened" regarding the efficacy of the Sanford PD investigation. I've just argued against the irrationality of simply assuming their investigation was thorough and adequate despite the fact that none of us actually know one way or the other.

Nonsense like this is why I'm no longer going to respond to your posts. I find it very exasperating to argue with people who seem to willfully misrepresent my position. And since you seem more interested in arguing against a straw man, I only see my participation in the discussion as a hindrance to that end.

 

[This is The End]

You are also doing the whole, it's possible, so it's probable, so it happened thing. We have no idea that they didn't do a good job, that is right, but there is no reason to assume that they didn't either.

I thought the SPD had a fairly disgusting history of botched investigations. If so, then I'm curious why you say "there is no reason to assume they didn't" do a good job.

 

[PhantomWolf]

I thought the SPD had a fairly disgusting history of botched investigations. If so, then I'm curious why you say "there is no reason to assume they didn't" do a good job.

How many cases a year do they deal with and how many of those do they screw up?

 

[LTC8K6]

Sure you did:



An ongoing investigation is by definition an incomplete investigation. And a through investigation, by definition, cannot be incomplete.

No, I typed SPD when I meant SA.

What is wrong with you?

I knew I should have kept this thread on ignore.

 

[Amazer]

No, I typed SPD when I meant SA.

What is wrong with you?

I knew I should have kept this thread on ignore.

You cannot expect people to read your mind. Perhaps it would have helped if you clarified this earlier?

 

[LTC8K6]

You cannot expect people to read your mind. Perhaps it would have helped if you clarified this earlier?

I couldn't figure out what the heck he was talking about. He kept saying the same thing over and over.

I finally realized it when he pointed out my Crump typo.

Then I realized that he was holding onto typos as if they were strong positions.

He himself must never have considered that they were typos.

I had no idea anyone would argue that way.

 

[johnny karate]

No, I typed SPD when I meant SA.

What is wrong with you?

I knew I should have kept this thread on ignore.

I've quoted your post about the Sanford PD at least three times. And this is the first time you've claimed it was typo. I can't read your mind. Only what you post.

Next time I recommend making these clarifications a lot sooner, and maybe have the good grace not to jump down someone else's throat because of a mistake you made.

I couldn't figure out what the heck he was talking about. He kept saying the same thing over and over.

I finally realized it when he pointed out my Crump typo.

Then I realized that he was holding onto typos as if they were strong positions.

He himself must never have considered that they were typos.

I had no idea anyone would argue that way.

How was I supposed to know those were typos?

Is there a decoder ring I'm supposed to use to decipher the words you type into the words you actually meant?

This is just ridiculous. If someone misinterprets something I've said because of my typo, I don't
attack them for not being a mind-reader. I apologize for my mistake and move on.

 

[Dancing David]

People are trying to come up with ideas about why a fingerprint expert is being called.

Instead of making fun of those people's ideas perhaps we could say something like:




It's pretty easy to not guess at all and just take pot shots at other people's guesses....

I agree

Finger print experts are standard testimony as well, and likely GZ's finger prints are on his gun and phone. And TM's prints are one his phone. Now what would be surprising is if their fingerprints are on the other's phone.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

My point is, as you should be able to understand, that they aren't saying that "if the facts as told by Zimmerman are true, it's still murder". They are saying "Zimmerman is lying, and here's why". Don't you find it interesting that they are going to talk about fingerprints?

No, not so much on the fingerprints. It could be SOP for all I know. Until I see it in context, I don't have any reason to assume it's an important piece of evidence against GZ.

For example, Gilbreath testified that the voice analysis was not useful, but all the voice experts were on the list - presumably because they were part of the investigation, not because they states case rests on their testimony.

At first glance, I didn't see anything in that list that looked new or unexpected. We shall certainly see soon of if the State has all kinds of evidence we don't know about as has been suggested by certain posters.

 

[Cylinder]

Yea, the timing seems to point to a summary of discovery rather than a witness list, though there's no real certainty which it is until it gets published.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I thought the SPD had a fairly disgusting history of botched investigations. If so, then I'm curious why you say "there is no reason to assume they didn't" do a good job.

Why do you think they have a fairly disgusting history of botched investigations ? I have heard of at least one incident in the press, but I am not sure how that makes botched investigations the rule, not the exception. I don't even know if it counts as a botched investigations, or a deliberate cover-up, or something else. Is one corrupt officer an indictment against the entire SPD ?

People are trying to come up with ideas about why a fingerprint expert is being called...
It's pretty easy to not guess at all and just take pot shots at other people's guesses....

A number of posters in this thread have demonstrated that quite well.

 

[crimresearch]

I have a long list of people on ignore right now for exactly this reason. Yes, they brought in fingerprint experts so it's a fair question as to what they hope to prove. For some folks, this case is a barrel of laughs.

What are the names of these 'fingerprint experts' that 'they' have 'brought in'?

Or are you talking about the fact that every police department in America has someone who can collect fingerprints and compare them?

 

[Cylinder]

Or are you talking about the fact that every police department in America has someone who can collect fingerprints and compare them?

Yup. The state will still want to prove that Zimmerman actually shot Martin, even with the confession.

 

[Dan O.]

How was I supposed to know those were typos?

You are in a much better position to spot the error. when someone shows a strong confirmation bias tendency, they will be able to read their own post over and over and each time see exactly what they had intended to write and not see the typo. With a fresh set of eyes you will see the inconsistency so you need to help them out by highlighting the specific word or phrase to force them to read it out of context. Only then will they see that it wasn't what they meant.

 

[Dan O.]

What are the names of these 'fingerprint experts' that 'they' have 'brought in'?

You should have read the article yourself before badgering a poster for discussing it. The article clearly states "Most names were redacted from the witness and evidence document obtained by the Orlando Sentinel" and doesn't list the names of the fingerprint experts from two organizations. It's possible that the report did list these experts names and the article authors just left them out. If it is important for you to know, you can contact the article authors directly since they signed their own email addresses and phone numbers at the end.

 

[bookworm]

Lee means GZ does not know initially, so it can't be the reason for the interest, imo. "He looks black." is an indication that GZ is initially not sure of TM's race.

The fact that GZ later says "He's a black male" does not make Lee a liar.

Imo, the 911 calls do indeed show that GZ couldn't have been racial profiling.

Or "hoodie" profiling, either, since the 911 calls also indicate that TM didn't have his hood up at first.

This is exactly how I interpreted this.

 

[Cylinder]

This is exactly how I interpreted this.

That's why I was curious to see Lee's quoted words. The Herald seemed to treat this as if Lee asserted that Zimmerman never mentioned Martin's race - which would be false - rather than Zimmerman was unsure about Martin's race - which would be true.

I haven't seen anything that refutes the interpretation that Lee was trying to throw water on a fire, though he can be accused of naïveté, since the media had already backed up the tanker trucks of of jet fuel and set the hoses to FULL BLAST.

Of course, this is all a side-note, since Chief Lee wasn't part of the investigation.

 

[bookworm]

Because going with evidence that corroborates Zimmermans story seemed like a bad idea ?

I think that probably seemed like a dangerous idea.