The Incredible odds of fulfilled bible prophecy

[dafydd]

Already been given, read the thread.

No evidence was forthcoming from you.

 

[Akhenaten]

Geeze Louise, do I have to do everything myself?

I"ll help you out this time, DOC, but in future please try to keep up.

Gentiles in Jerusalem?​

[DOC]

Already explained in numerous posts.

[/DOC]


Please post a link to your response to this particular post. Note that includes a requirement that you not present the made-up (by you) version of the scriptures that you've previously attempted to use.

I don't believe that the prophecy mentioned here has been fulfilled:

Isaiah 52:1 Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean.

See if you can respond without using the words "if" and "might" to dishonestly insert your own fanciful conditions into it.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

These are verses that are good examples of things that would not be made up by a story teller inventing a story about the risen Messiah.

Translation: they weren't made up.

DOC views the world, the bible and all evidence of prophesy (or lack thereof) through an unassailable prism, making direct argument with him a waste of time. There is literally no evidence, no argument, no logic, that would sway him from his strongly felt beliefs - and that's fine.

His quote above is unassailable - if a bible story is accurate, its a sign of divine inspiration. If not, its very inaccuracy makes it more plausible. There's no arguing with that. The word "unfalsifiable" comes to mind, regarding his view of the bible.

I still toy with the idea that DOC does not really believe any of this, and is just having sport with us - perhaps reveling in the thread's post count and considering each post a credit to his trolling skills. If there's any justification for rehashing the same ground over and over, and pointing out the same fallacies over and over, its only to expose newcomers to the thread with arguments against the thread topic.

I'll keep lurking, I suppose - it's like a car wreck that's hard to look away from. But really, there's less and less reason to do so.

 

[DOC]

Ezekiel 26:14

And I will make thee like the top of a rock: thou shalt be a place to spread nets upon; thou shalt be built no more: for I the LORD have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.

We've already spent pages and pages and pages talking about Tyre. How can you rebuild a city on the mainland where the materials of the city are under water. Those buildings under water can never be rebuilt. If 50 buildings that make up a city are washed out to sea in a Tsunami those 50 building can not be rebuilt, they are gone never to be used again.

And how do you know that Herod wasn't talking about the new different Tyre on the Island and not the old "Tyre on the Mainland" whose buildings were destroyed -- you don't.

 

[Mojo]

DOC, it's still there.

 

[Akhenaten]

Ezekiel 26:14

And I will make thee like the top of a rock: thou shalt be a place to spread nets upon; thou shalt be built no more: for I the LORD have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.

We've already spent pages and pages and pages talking about Tyre. How can you rebuild a city on the mainland where the materials of the city are under water. Those buildings under water can never be rebuilt. If 50 buildings that make up a city are washed out to sea in a Tsunami those 50 building can not be rebuilt, they are gone never to be used again.

And how do you know that Herod wasn't talking about the new different Tyre on the Island and not the old "Tyre on the Mainland" whose buildings were destroyed -- you don't.

Which bit of

thou shalt be built no more

is giving you the most trouble?

 

[Akhenaten]

And how do you know that Herod wasn't talking about the new different Tyre on the Island and not the old "Tyre on the Mainland" whose buildings were destroyed -- you don't.

Because there's no "new different Tyre on the Island". The one that's there now is the same one that's always been there.

It has never been destroyed. Not by Nebuchadnezzar. Not by Alexander. Not by anyone.

 

[Akhenaten]

We've already spent pages and pages and pages talking about Tyre.

No, we've spent pages and pages trying to get some answers out of you that are based on evidence.

You have provided none.

How can you rebuild a city on the mainland where the materials of the city are under water.

Since the prophecy describes Tyre as being "in the midst of the sea" then it obviously has nothing to do with the city on the mainland.

Those buildings under water can never be rebuilt.

Since you've just made them up, there's no need to rebuild them.

If 50 buildings that make up a city are washed out to sea in a Tsunami those 50 building can not be rebuilt, they are gone never to be used again.

Provide a link to the prophecy that mentions this tsunami.

 

[Akhenaten]

DOC, it's still there.

I'm completely at a loss to understand the mindset of someone who can claim that a prophecy that a place will be utterly destroyed and never be rebuilt has been fulfilled despite its quite obviously still being there.

How could anyone not see the disconnect between this picture and its caption:

And I will make thee like the top of a rock: thou shalt be a place to spread nets upon;
thou shalt be built no more: for I the LORD have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.​

 

[Akhenaten]

And another thing . . .

If the 50 buildings that make up a city . . .

At the time of Alexander's conquest of Tyre (the island part of it, Wilbur) it had a population of almost 40,000.

Do you have any real conception at all of the size of the place you're claiming to have ceased to exist in about 572 BCE?

 

[Craig B]

These are verses that are good examples of things that would not be made up by a story teller inventing a story about the risen Messiah.

Translation: they weren't made up.

That's rather a dangerous argument, from your point of view. OK then, they weren't made up. That means that in truth the disciples didn't recognise any risen Jesus, when they first saw him. "But some doubted." What could they have doubted? The reality of what some other people were saying they saw. That looks like the gradual spread of a delusion or mass hallucination to me.

And your argument also implies that the stories about disciples seeing angels, Jesus rising into the sky etc, are the sort of things that might well have been made up. I concur with that. All the stories can't be true anyway, because they contradict one another on so many points. See http://atheism.about.com/od/gospelcontradictions/p/Resurrection.htm . You tell us:

Christ could have had his glorified body which might have been somewhat different than his normal appearance and certainly different than the last few days of his life when he was under great stress.

This is supposed to explain why Mary Magdalen mistook him for a gardener? Gardeners look as if they have glorified bodies?

Even people like John Lennon seemed to have a different look every time you saw them.

I'm not sure of the value of that last observation. Anyway, Lennon never managed to get resurrected.

 

[Akhenaten]

Craig, with all due respect mate, allowing DOC to pursue these side issues is exactly the reason that this thread is such a dog's breakfast.

He needs to be nailed to the topic every time he appears.

Your arguments about the resurrection and the gospels are spot-on, but they belong in TTTWND.

 

[pakeha]

...
Christ could have had his glorified body which might have been somewhat different than his normal appearance and certainly different than the last few days of his life when he was under great stress. ....

How does this relate to the OP?

Is that the Tyre one I've already commented on many times?

As a courtesy to new readers, could you explain why this isn't an unfulfilled prophesy?
Or at least link to your own posts on the subject?

 

[RoboTimbo]

And how do you know that Herod wasn't talking about the new different Tyre on the Island and not the old "Tyre on the Mainland" whose buildings were destroyed -- you don't.

DOC, I'd like to know if the prophecy about Tyre was fulfilled. YES or NO?

 

[Craig B]

DOC, I'd like to know if the prophecy about Tyre was fulfilled. YES or NO?

He's now developed a complex argument involving a "Tyre on the Island" and a "Tyre on the Mainland" both or either of which have been destroyed or not as the case may be. And the one that wasn't destroyed really was, because old buildings have at various times been demolished. By that reasoning every city has been destroyed of course, so how it fulfills any sort of prophecy is beyond me.

 

[joobz]

Well actually the apostles didn't need any faith, because according to the bible they actually saw the resurrected Christ.

But Christ said to "doubting Thomas" blessed are they that believe having not seen.

Then your initial claim regarding the early christian's risk of their lives for no gain is false. They had a lot to gain.

 

[Agatha]

If by "like the top of a rock" means "like a busy city"

and "a place to spread nets" means "no room to spread nets because of all the buildings, people and roads"

and "built no more" means "continuously built from that day to this"

then Ezekiel is obviously a fulfilled prophecy. The thing is, DOC, is that ordinarily, words do not mean their polar opposites. Kindly explain how a city which Ezekiel said would be destroyed and never built again, is still here?

 

[tsig]

Well actually the apostles didn't need any faith, because according to the bible they actually saw the resurrected Christ.

But Christ said to "doubting Thomas" blessed are they that believe having not seen.

delete

 

[joobz]

We've already spent pages and pages and pages talking about Tyre. How can you rebuild a city on the mainland where the materials of the city are under water. Those buildings under water can never be rebuilt. If 50 buildings that make up a city are washed out to sea in a Tsunami those 50 building can not be rebuilt, they are gone never to be used again.

And how do you know that Herod wasn't talking about the new different Tyre on the Island and not the old "Tyre on the Mainland" whose buildings were destroyed -- you don't.

DOC, all of your arguments to demonstrate a fulfilled prophecy result in a such a wishy washy interpretation that effectively any statement could be considered fulfilled.


As such, this thread title is false. There is nothing incredible with the odds of what you are willing to count as a fulfilled prophecy.

A more accurate thread title is:
"The incredibly odd lengths one will go to claim that biblical prophecies were fulfilled."

 

[tsig]

DOC views the world, the bible and all evidence of prophesy (or lack thereof) through an unassailable prism, making direct argument with him a waste of time. There is literally no evidence, no argument, no logic, that would sway him from his strongly felt beliefs - and that's fine.

His quote above is unassailable - if a bible story is accurate, its a sign of divine inspiration. If not, its very inaccuracy makes it more plausible. There's no arguing with that. The word "unfalsifiable" comes to mind, regarding his view of the bible.

I still toy with the idea that DOC does not really believe any of this, and is just having sport with us - perhaps reveling in the thread's post count and considering each post a credit to his trolling skills. If there's any justification for rehashing the same ground over and over, and pointing out the same fallacies over and over, its only to expose newcomers to the thread with arguments against the thread topic.

I'll keep lurking, I suppose - it's like a car wreck that's hard to look away from. But really, there's less and less reason to do so.

Yep, a 2000 car pileup on the freeway.