Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[KatieG]

Interesting article on the timeline.

http://viewfromll2.com/2012/04/05/minute-by-minute-timeline-of-trayvon-martins-death/

 

[KatieG]

Those were the initial reports, which appear to have been erroneous.

Seems 170 for GZ and 160 for TM are the new "accepted" figures.



CNN transcript (anchor speaking):
And not to beat a dead horse, but I keep going back to the witness account of what she thought was the Hispanic looking man, who she called the larger man. George Zimmerman is 5'9'', about 160, 170 pounds. And Trayvon Martin again to the police report is six feet. According to other reports, he may be taller and is approximately 160 as well. So it's a little hard to determine who is the bigger man.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/09/cnr.07.html

He weighed 185 when he was booked. It has been widely reported by his family that he'd lost a lot of weight since the shooting. It's been discussed several times in this thread and searchable. I'll go by the actual figures and not some eyewitness statement.

 

[Giz]

He weighed 185 when he was booked. It has been widely reported by his family that he'd lost a lot of weight since the shooting. It's been discussed several times in this thread and searchable. I'll go by the actual figures and not some eyewitness statement.

Source?

 

[KatieG]

Source?

You want a link to the booking report from the Seminole Jail?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Interesting article on the timeline.

http://viewfromll2.com/2012/04/05/minute-by-minute-timeline-of-trayvon-martins-death/

Another timeline where TM decided to stand around not going anywhere for 3 minutes instead of the last 70 yards to home sweet home.

Of course the idea that he didn't want to talk to his GF in front of his father so he just stayed at the cut through is absurd becuse his parents were in Orlando at dinner.

Less than 1 minute he could have been safe at home, completing his 45 minute .8 mile walk ...

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

He weighed 185 when he was booked. It has been widely reported by his family that he'd lost a lot of weight since the shooting. It's been discussed several times in this thread and searchable. I'll go by the actual figures and not some eyewitness statement.

Actually Katie, I believe it's been widely reported that he lost a lot of weight since he was at the weight he was at several years ago, the one when he was arrested or whenever it was, that the media kept basing his weight on.

Either way it's a hilarious example of bias that "anti-GZ" folks want to keep asserting he was heavier (not directing this at you), it's an example of just how badly bias can blind you to the point that you're making arguments that counter the point you think you are making. The reason being, it's ignorant to suggest that the heavier person in a fight necessarily has a big advantage. That might be true if you're 6'6" and weigh 250, it sure as hell isn't true if you're 5'8" and weigh 250, then you're an out of shape fat guy.

I currently weigh about 225. I was an infinitely more dangerous mofo when I was a slim/fast/strong 175.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I currently weigh about 225. I can assure you I was an infinitely more dangerous mofo when I was a slim/fast/strong 175.

cites facts not in evidence

 

[KatieG]

Actually Katie, I believe it's been widely reported that he lost a lot of weight since he was at the weight he was at several years ago, the one when he was arrested or whenever it was, that the media kept basing his weight on. It seems unlikely that he lost ~40 pounds in a period of about a month. Not impossible, but unlikely.

Either way it's a hilarious example of bias that "anti-GZ" folks want to keep asserting he was heavier (not directing this at you), it's an example of just how badly bias can blind you to the point that you're making arguments that counter the point you think you are making. The reason being, it's ignorant to suggest that the heavier person in a fight necessarily has a big advantage. That might be true if you're 6'6" and weigh 250, it sure as hell isn't true if you're 5'8" and weigh 250, then you're an out of shape fat guy.

I currently weigh about 225. I can assure you I was an infinitely more dangerous mofo when I was a slim/fast/strong 175.

I'll agree with that, NBS. There's still quite a bit of difference between 160 and 185. I would imagine he's lost weight since the shooting, I'm sure his life is hell. I wish we'd get the doc dump. All this speculation and posturing is crazy making.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Source?

Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

I'll agree with that, NBS. There's still quite a bit of difference between 160 and 185. I would imagine he's lost weight since the shooting, I'm sure his life is hell. I wish we'd get the doc dump. All this speculation and posturing is crazy making.

Ya, non-stop stress can wreak havoc with your appetite, so it would not surprise me if he's lost weight. On the other hand for some reason I imagine him being pretty much under a self-imposed house arrest so people don't recognize him, which isn't the best thing for losing weight either, so who knows.

I'd be very curious to know how he is living on a day to day basis and stopping himself from being seen (which I assume he's doing but don't know). In some ways he's in prison right now.

 

[KatieG]

Ya, non-stop stress can wreak havoc with your appetite, so it would not surprise me if he's lost weight. On the other hand for some reason I imagine him being pretty much under a self-imposed house arrest so people don't recognize him, which isn't the best thing for losing weight either, so who knows.

I'd be very curious to know how he is living on a day to day basis and stopping himself from being seen (which I assume he's doing but don't know). In some ways he's in prison right now.

Don't wanna get all sappy and stuff, but I think he'll be in a mental prison for the rest of his life. I don't think you (generic you) can shoot someone, regardless of the reason, and not be scarred by the event.

 

[GWCarver]

Interesting article on the timeline.

BTW, I heard O'Mara say Zimmerman weighed 185, but I don't have a link.

Anyway, from the link at your timeline, here is where many of the Trayvon guilters go wrong:

"7:13:14pm: Zimmerman has lost Trayvon. He doesn’t want to say his address out loud because “I don’t know where this kid is.” Nine seconds later, Zimmerman tells dispatcher to have police call him when they arrive rather than meet at specific place, indicating that Zimmerman plans to keep moving, and doesn’t know where exactly he’ll be when police arrive."

Note that the author has made up the part about Zimmerman saying he didn't want to give his address "out loud", implying TM might be close and might hear him. Then he invents the scenario of Zimmerman planning to keep moving, as if he is going to continue looking for TM.

Here is what Zimmerman actually said:

911 dispatcher:

OK, what’s your apartment number?

Zimmerman:

It’s a home. It’s 1950 – oh, crap, I don’t want to give it all out – I don’t know where this kid is.

So, it sounds to me like Zimmerman is really saying he doesn't want to give all the information out because he thinks the kid is gone and it will be a waste of time. Besides, the police are on their way. I've never seen a transcript that had "out loud" in it. I can't post the url, but just listen to it and you will see George says exactly what I posted above.

 

[KatieG]

BTW, I heard O'Mara say Zimmerman weighed 185, but I don't have a link.

Anyway, from the link at your timeline, here is where many of the Trayvon guilters go wrong:

"7:13:14pm: Zimmerman has lost Trayvon. He doesn’t want to say his address out loud because “I don’t know where this kid is.” Nine seconds later, Zimmerman tells dispatcher to have police call him when they arrive rather than meet at specific place, indicating that Zimmerman plans to keep moving, and doesn’t know where exactly he’ll be when police arrive."

Note that the author has made up the part about Zimmerman saying he didn't want to give his address "out loud", implying TM might be close and might hear him. Then he invents the scenario of Zimmerman planning to keep moving, as if he is going to continue looking for TM.

Here is what Zimmerman actually said:

911 dispatcher:

OK, what’s your apartment number?

Zimmerman:

It’s a home. It’s 1950 – oh, crap, I don’t want to give it all out – I don’t know where this kid is.

So, it sounds to me like Zimmerman is really saying he doesn't want to give all the information out because he thinks the kid is gone and it will be a waste of time. Besides, the police are on their way. I've never seen a transcript that had "out loud" in it. I can't post the url, but just listen to it and you will see George says exactly what I posted above.

It's not MY timeline. I posted it so others could see it since I didn't see it posted before.

 

[GWCarver]

Sorry, I knew it wasn't your timeline, just your link. Be that as it may, that timeline is tragically flawed.

 

[Rare Truth]

From the Zimmerman bond hearing transcript:

O'MARA: Witnesses heard people arguing, sounded like a struggle. During this time, witnesses heard numerous calls for help. Some of this was recorded. Trayvon's mom reviewed the 911 calls and identified the cry for help and Trayvon Martin's voice. Did you do any forensic analysis on that voice tape?

GILBREATH: Did I?

O'MARA: Did you or are you aware of anything?

GILBREATH: The "Orlando Sentinel" had someone do it and the FBI has had someone do it.

O'MARA: Is that part of your investigation?

GILBREATH: Yes.

O'MARA: Has that given any insight as to the voice?

GILBREATH: No.

I can't post links yet, but the source is CNN transcripts.

I've read that plenty of times, thank you very much.

Now would you consider answering the question I asked rather that cutting and pasting a flower pot of bail hearing drama?

 

[Rare Truth]

Zimmerman supporter? What the hell is that?

I think the eyewitness, that GZ was actually screaming at, asking for help, will suffice.

So you've seen the sworn testimony of all the witnesses? Please share.

One other thing...Zimmerman claims TM had both hands on Z's mouth and nose, nearly suffocating him.

How does one emit a loud, deep-throated yell for help as one is being suffocated?

 

[GWCarver]

I've read that plenty of times, thank you very much.

Now would you consider answering the question I asked rather that cutting and pasting a flower pot of bail hearing drama?

I thought you might like to know Galbreath said the FBI had already tried and had been unable to determine whose voice was screaming. With what little I know about voice analysis, I think they will need a perfect print of TM screaming whatever words were being screamed for purposes of comparison, and that just isn't in the cards. So, I'll pass.

 

[Mumbles]

BTW, I heard O'Mara say Zimmerman weighed 185, but I don't have a link.

Anyway, from the link at your timeline, here is where many of the Trayvon guilters go wrong:

"7:13:14pm: Zimmerman has lost Trayvon. He doesn’t want to say his address out loud because “I don’t know where this kid is.” Nine seconds later, Zimmerman tells dispatcher to have police call him when they arrive rather than meet at specific place, indicating that Zimmerman plans to keep moving, and doesn’t know where exactly he’ll be when police arrive."

Note that the author has made up the part about Zimmerman saying he didn't want to give his address "out loud", implying TM might be close and might hear him. Then he invents the scenario of Zimmerman planning to keep moving, as if he is going to continue looking for TM.

Here is what Zimmerman actually said:

911 dispatcher:

OK, what’s your apartment number?

Zimmerman:

It’s a home. It’s 1950 – oh, crap, I don’t want to give it all out – I don’t know where this kid is.

So, it sounds to me like Zimmerman is really saying he doesn't want to give all the information out because he thinks the kid is gone and it will be a waste of time. Besides, the police are on their way. I've never seen a transcript that had "out loud" in it. I can't post the url, but just listen to it and you will see George says exactly what I posted above.

What a bizarre take on the event. We know that Zimmerman was upset, and that he decided to chase after Martin. We're suddenly supposed to believe that he had given up, and was unconcerned with Martin?

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

I've read that plenty of times, thank you very much.

Now would you consider answering the question I asked rather that cutting and pasting a flower pot of bail hearing drama?

Although you were addressing gwcarver, I answered your question, buy you didn't answer mine. It's not a particularly meaningful question, it's like asking "what if the police develop an instrument that can look into the past and observe and record the event, would you change your opinion then". The answer is of course, what of it? Now how about answering my question?

 

[lomiller]

By pursuing, do you mean "attempting to keep in sight" or "run down and detain",

Keeping in sight = following. Following strangers at night is an extremely threatening behavior. Attempting to "detain" them is even more threatening.

Are you seriously telling me that if you were being followed, on a dark street at night, and the person who was following you came up to you and tried to force you to do something you would;d just do it and not try to defend yourself?