JFK Conspiracy Theories: It Never Ends

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The dictated McCelland drawing was done only for the purpose of showing the back of the head.


You ignored all the diverse statements about where the damage was, Robert.
How come?

You know, left temple, right temple, vertex, occipital, parietal, temporal, etc.

Please quote something that confirms your statement about the purpose of the drawing. I suspect you cannot. I would wager you are making that up.

And are you acknowledging the drawing was deliberately made inaccurate by deliberately excluding other wounds McClelland saw?

Hank
 
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I only answer one challenge at a time. The Crenshaw and the Newman challenge have been refuted.


Answer the Crenshaw one then.
Or the Newman one.
Or the McClelland one.

You have responded on any of those with anything meaningful. Your McClelland response amounted to a straw argument, rebutting something I wasn't arguing.

Your Newman response ignores the fact that Newman's named source of the shots was from behind and to the right of the limo, which would make for an impossible exit wound in the back of the head. And ignores that Newman said the damage he saw was to the right side of the head.

You never explained how Crenshaw's description doesn't fit the autopsy photo.

Hank
 
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Not so. Crossing out names is not a challenge.Only two challenges so far: Crenshaw and Newman and both shown to be without foundation.


That's a bold faced lie, Robert. You've been challenged on a lot of these.

Here's Jenkins statement you never rebutted.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8207484&postcount=6003
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8031386&postcount=3257

You've been challenged on numerous people on the list. You ignored most every one.


Hank
 
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As to the autopsy photos, Wilson's conclusions, interesting, and perhaps true. As to the backyard photos, White's conclusions, interesting, and perhaps true.

This commits to absolutely nothing, Robert, nor does it advance the debate. I do not accept this answer.

Regarding Tom Wilson, you originally stated that he was an expert in the digital analysis of photographs. You further insinuated that his findings, based on his expert digital analysis of the autopsy photographs, were that Kennedy's head as depicted had been altered with paint and mortician's wax. You cited this as evidence that the autopsy photos were faked.

You were unable to establish Wilson as an expert according to any standard. Do you you concede that he should not be considered an expert?

You were unwilling to discuss an evaluation of Wilson's purported method by verifiable experts according to principles of the relevant science. Do you concede that qualified experts are likely to disagree with Wilson's methods and findings, and can cite reasons from the relevant science to support their disagreement?

You state that Wilson's conclusions are "interesting." That says nothing about whether you now consider them scientifically rigorous. Do you concede that you are unable to determine or establish whether Wilson's conclusions have the scientific basis they purport to have?

You state that Wilson's conclusions are "perhaps true." That says nothing about whether you believe them as you once did. Do you concede that you have failed to prove they are true?

Regarding Jack White, he has claimed to be a "photographic analyst," and indeed has claimed to be so highly skilled in that area that he is rightly feared by "the government." He has claimed, based on a photogrammetric analysis of the backyard photos, that they are composites. You cited this as evidence that the photos are fake.

You were unable to establish Jack White as an expert according to any standard, and you were further unwilling to name a standard that might accept White as an expert. You have been asked several times to explain Whites on-record statement that he is unfamiliar with the science that governs the methods he used and the explicit correction of his method by others on the same record.

Finally, you say that you accept some of White's claims and reject his others. This would place the onus on you, not on White, to explain which of White's "expert" conclusions you consider valid which other of his "expert" conclusions you reject, and on what grounds. Accepting him as an expert, but selectively rejecting his expert testimony undermines your claim to his expertise.

Do you concede that Jack White should not be considered an expert?

You were unwilling to discuss White's analytical method and an evaluation of it by a verifiable expert; you dismissed it as off topic. Do you concede that White's methods and findings are likely not to be accepted as valid by the body of relevant experts?

You continually dismissed evaluations of White's purported experts as "ad hominem attacks," but you were unwilling to discuss blatant personal attacks made by White upon his critics. Do you concede that White makes habitual use of personal attacks upon his critics?

You say White's conclusions regarding the backyard photos are "interesting," but this does not describe whether they are rigorous or valid. Do you concede that you are unable to show that White reached his conclusion by any sort of scientifically valid method?

You say White's conclusions are "perhaps true," but this does not tell us whether you continue to believe in White's findings as you once did. Do you concede that you have failed to prove White's conclusions are true?

And I will consider your typical "One question at a time" evasion to be a deliberate refusal to answer the questions regarding your prior claims.
 
Not so. Crossing out names is not a challenge.Only two challenges so far: Crenshaw and Newman and both shown to be without foundation.


Liar.

Here's the statements of the Willis family that you ignored.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8216445&highlight=Willis#post8216445

You've been challenged on numerous people on the list. You ignored most every one.

And then claim you haven't been challenged, except on two.

This is fooling no one here.

Hank
 
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Just trying to get you poor, uninformed Lone Nutters a chance to find even one medical witness...

I renew my objection, which you did not address.

You claim the Kennedy head wound was different than what has been commonly accepted. You bear the burden to prove that claim. Either the lengthy list of names you posted was merely an irrelevant distraction, or you have some basis for believing that any or all of those named witnesses would testify in a way that somehow substantiates your claim. If any or all of those names are of people who provide relevant testimony, please cite and or excerpt the relevant portions of the testimony. Otherwise, based on your track record of shoddy witness handling, I presume that none of them has testified in support of your claim.
 
A point of reference...

From Joshisa Thompson...

It is one of the oldest mistakes in JFK research to ascribe the the sketch in Six Seconds to Dr. McClelland. I've been telling people for years that McClelland had nothing to do with the preparation of this sketch. I took a Polaroid photo of the right back of my head and sent it to a medical illustrator in Philadelphia. I included the actual text of McClelland's description of the Kennedy back of the head wound and paid the medical illustrator to draw it. Hence, it is just false that Dr. McClelland made the sketch. I never even asked him for his opinion on the sketch. The sketch then is the interpretation of a medical illustrator of what Dr. McClelland described.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/i...p=214702&hl=+mcclelland +drawing&#entry214702
 
It doesn't. All we have on that is your own Hearsay Triple Play.


There was no hearsay quoted. The witness spoke of what he heard from Crenshaw's own lips.

Are you claiming that if Oswald confessed, the police could not testify to that because it would be hearsay?

Like most of your claims, that one makes no sense.

Here's the statement by Russo again:
It references conspiracy author Gus Russo directly, who relates:
One night at the Stoneleigh [Hotel], Stone was having a slew of top secret meetings in his suite with people like Ricky White, whom Stone paid $80,000 for his fraudulent story, and the positively goofy Beverly Oliver. That night, Stone ushered Gary Shaw, [Robert] Groden and Crenshaw into his room; I was not invited, but I pressed Shaw (Crenshaw's and Oliver's advisor) for info in the lobby. He was the first to tell me that LBJ ordered Oswald killed. Later, Crenshaw came down, and we happened to be in the Stoneleigh men's room at the same time, standing at adjacent urinals. It was there that he told me that Johnson had ordered the Parkland staff to "kill the son-of-a-bitch." It was decided to "drown Oswald in his own blood," i.e. transfuse him until his lungs collapsed. (E-mail to the author dated August 25, 2003)

Hank
 
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The dictated McCelland drawing was done only for the purpose of showing the back of the head.


You avoided answering the questions:

How come his earliest statement on the head only mentions a large wound to the temple, and does not mention the back of the head at all?

Which image (the autopsy photo or the Back of Head drawing) sounds more like his description from the weekend of the assassination?

Hank
 
A gunshot wound to the right temple is only part of McCelland's statements as you very well know. Going over this same ground over and over again is getting boring.


You ignored the point again! let me repeat it here so you understand the question:

Here's his earliest statement corrected for the left / right error: "Cause of death was due to massive brain and head injury from a gunshot wound of the RIGHT temple." And here's the autopsy photo side by side with the drawing. Which of these does his earliest description best resemble, if we correct for the left / right error as you claim?

aut10_HI.jpg
picture.php
 
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You avoided answering the questions:

How come his earliest statement on the head only mentions a large wound to the temple, and does not mention the back of the head at all?

Which image (the autopsy photo or the Back of Head drawing) sounds more like his description from the weekend of the assassination?

Hank

Arrrrgh! McCelleand never said anything about a Large wound to the temple. But only that the shot entered the right temple causing a large wound to the head, including the parietal,, temporal and occipital lobes.
 
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A point of reference...

From Joshisa Thompson...

It is one of the oldest mistakes in JFK research to ascribe the the sketch in Six Seconds to Dr. McClelland. I've been telling people for years that McClelland had nothing to do with the preparation of this sketch. I took a Polaroid photo of the right back of my head and sent it to a medical illustrator in Philadelphia. I included the actual text of McClelland's description of the Kennedy back of the head wound and paid the medical illustrator to draw it. Hence, it is just false that Dr. McClelland made the sketch. I never even asked him for his opinion on the sketch. The sketch then is the interpretation of a medical illustrator of what Dr. McClelland described.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/i...p=214702&hl=+mcclelland +drawing&#entry214702


Everybody knows that McCelleand did not draw the sketch, that it was merely dictated. So what?
 
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