Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[This is The End]

Goodbye Mr. Lee ....

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/332074/20120423/trayvon-martin-case-bill-lee-sanford-chief.htm

Bill Lee, the Sanford, Fla., police chief who was criticized for his handling of the Trayvon Martin case, will resign from his post today.

Defense witness.

resignation rejected

http://www.newsday.com/news/nation/...ief-bill-lee-s-resignation-rejected-1.3677308

More info: http://content.usatoday.com/communi...ce-chief-to-resign-permanently-today/1?csp=hf

Someone refresh my memory. Wasn't there a police chief that resigned like 2 weeks ago?

 

[Dancing David]

Trayvons character is going to come up in trial, i think.

I am not sure about this, there is going to be very little of TM's history that is going to be relevant to the actual particulars of the case. Just as much of GZ's history is not going to be relevant to the particulars of the case.

Prior history is often excluded in the discovery.

Much of it will revolve around what a reasonable person would do in the particular situation that night.

 

[Dancing David]

We can only guess at that, but from the display they put on at the bond hearing I would give a weak guess of no. I think it's more likely they just have a prosecutor who made a different decision with the same evidence. Of course now when the evidence comes out, we'll get to see which prosecutor made the right decision.

It is really hard to say, some of it will depend on the conversation with the girlfriend , and then the actual case precedent that the prosecutor will be looking at.

There is going to be some fine balancing of prior cases to establish how to interpret the events of that night.

 

[crimresearch]

It is really hard to say, some of it will depend on the conversation with the girlfriend , and then the actual case precedent that the prosecutor will be looking at.

There is going to be some fine balancing of prior cases to establish how to interpret the events of that night.

No there isn't. Where are you getting these fantastic notions?

 

[crimresearch]

More info: http://content.usatoday.com/communi...ce-chief-to-resign-permanently-today/1?csp=hf

Someone refresh my memory. Wasn't there a police chief that resigned like 2 weeks ago?

He temporarily stepped aside, apparently so that he wouldn't be a lightning rod for his early remarks.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

6 weeks later, how much do they have ? Anything we are aware of ?

I have no idea since none of them have bothered to consult with me! How about you?

Well, instead of waiting for anyone involved with the investigation to come consult with me, I've done my own research on the information that has been released, testimony given at hearings, etc. Perhaps you could consider doing the same.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com..._chief-bill-lee-federal-review-federal-agency
"The best evidence we have is the testimony of George Zimmerman, and he says the decedent was the primary aggressor in the whole event," Serino told the Sentinel March 16. "Everything I have is adding up to what he says."[/I]

The lead investigator already admitted the state has no evidence to contradict GZ story he was returning to his truck.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So do you know who started the fight?
GILBREATH: Do I know?
O'MARA: Right.
GILBREATH: No.
O'MARA: Do you have any evidence that supports who may have started the fight?
GILBREATH: No.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Did you find a direct linkage between Owens and STC or are you just going by the similarity of the software? As I reported earlier, there appears to be an open source repository of the core functions and it wouldn't be surprising to see multiple commercial spinoffs once the technology matured.

I believe I asked for a link before and got no response. If you did respond, I apologize for asking again - but what repository ?

 

[Dan O.]

I believe I asked for a link before and got no response. If you did respond, I apologize for asking again - but what repository ?

While an iPad is great for casual browsing, it sucks when it comes to keeping notes on what you find. Someone needs to pound Apple's head against the concrete and get them to fix this oversight.

I have been unsuccessful at retracing my search that uncovered that information but seem to recall it had something to do with NIST.


ETA: this is not the software library I was looking for but it is an open source project that may be of intrest: http://mistral.univ-avignon.fr/doc/publi/10_ACM-SAC_Charton.pdf

 

[KatieG]

Well, instead of waiting for anyone involved with the investigation to come consult with me, I've done my own research on the information that has been released, testimony given at hearings, etc. Perhaps you could consider doing the same.

I have done the same. I'm just not ready to make a final judgement until the facts and forensics become public.

But ok, here's my theory, again. GZ was following TM, making sure "those ******** that always get away" didn't get away this time. If the GF is correct and the conversation went TM "Why are you following me?" and GZ "What you doing here?", then the confrontation began. I don't know who hit who first. There was a scuffle and TM was shot.

What I don't know:

the results of TM's autopsy report. Are there any signs of injury to TM? This will be important. I've never been in a fist fight, so I asked others about injuries. If there are no marks on TM's hands or face, I think there's something wrong with GZ's story. In general, nobody walks away, or is carried away, from a fight without some sign of being in a fight.

GZ's medical report. What are his injuries? At this time, I'm not willing to accept any photos or internet speculation on whether he has serious head injuries or a broken nose. I don't believe his injuries rose to the level of being in fear for his life. If it goes to trial, we'll get the details then.


Based solely on his call to non-emergency 911, I think he profiled TM and was determined this one wouldn't get away. I will not judge GZ as racist but I think he had a very clear agenda.

From my experience, "What are you doing here?" is a very accusatory question. Not, "Hey, you look a little lost, can I help you?" Wouldn't that have been a better way to approach TM? I think GZ's a little hot head and was angry.

I think the law is faulty and poorly written. Again, that's not GZ's fault. He was the adult and the one carrying a weapon so for me, it behooved him to be more careful. I don't think any person should be able to start trouble and use a gun to finish it.

I am open to new facts coming into evidence that show things happened differently. There are no winners here. Regardless of the outcome, GZ's life is ruined. I don't think he's a cold hearted animal who has no remorse so he will suffer from this for the rest of his life. I'm quite sure he would take it all back if he could.

All of the above is My Opinion Only. If you don't agree with my conclusions, so be it.

I'd also appreciate if you'd lose the attitude with me. This is the second or third time you've come at me with what I consider a very aggressive attitude and I think it's uncalled for. I have never been rude to you so I'd appreciate the same consideration from you.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

While an iPad is great for casual browsing, it sucks when it comes to keeping notes on what you find. Someone needs to pound Apple's head against the concrete and get them to fix this oversight.

I have been unsuccessful at retracing my search that uncovered that information but seem to recall it had something to do with NIST.

Your original post. I don't see where I asked about the open source before, I thought I did.

If you are into programming, the toolkit that Easy Voice is probably built from is open source.
...

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I have done the same. I'm just not ready to make a final judgement until the facts and forensics become public.
...
All of the above is My Opinion Only. If you don't agree with my conclusions, so be it.

I am not going to the effort to respond to your post point by point, because you have ignored that in the past.

I guess the answer to my question is you aren't aware of any information that contradicts GZ story.

I'd also appreciate if you'd lose the attitude with me. This is the second or third time you've come at me with what I consider a very aggressive attitude and I think it's uncalled for. I have never been rude to you so I'd appreciate the same consideration from you.

Your posts make claims, and I am simply asking for you to elaborate on the claims, or providing information which I think proves your claim false.

I'm certainly not going to claim am I never rude or snarky, but you were the one who made the snarky comment about the SPD consulting with you, not me.

I don't see where I have been anything other than civil towards you in my past posts.

 

[KatieG]

I am not going to the effort to respond to your post point by point, because you have ignored that in the past.

I guess the answer to my question is you aren't aware of any information that contradicts GZ story.



Your posts make claims, and I am simply asking for you to elaborate on the claims, or providing information which I think proves your claim false.

I'm certainly not going to claim am I never rude or snarky, but you were the one who made the snarky comment about the SPD consulting with you, not me.

I don't see where I have been anything other than civil towards you in my past posts.

None of us in the public have any information that might contradict GZ's story. It's all speculation, on everyone's part. Until the evidence and forensics are known, it's not a fact. So, I did answer your question. I gave a fairly detailed post about what I believe happened that night. If you don't like my answer, build a bridge and get over it.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

While an iPad is great for casual browsing, it sucks when it comes to keeping notes on what you find. Someone needs to pound Apple's head against the concrete and get them to fix this oversight.

I have been unsuccessful at retracing my search that uncovered that information but seem to recall it had something to do with NIST.


ETA: this is not the software library I was looking for but it is an open source project that may be of intrest: http://mistral.univ-avignon.fr/doc/publi/10_ACM-SAC_Charton.pdf

http://mistral.univ-avignon.fr/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
http://www.irisa.fr/metiss/guig/spro/spro-4.0.1/spro.html

I think you've demonstrated an open source audio library exists.
SPro is a speech signal processing toolkit which provides runtime commands implementing standard feature extraction algorithms for speech and speaker recognition applications and a C library to implement new algorithms and to use SPro files within your own programs.

And that someone is trying to make a framework for biometric authentication.

How that ties in to easyvoice, IDK...

 

[LTC8K6]

I don't think I'd have any signs of being in a fight if I sucker punched someone in the nose, and then got on top of them and began banging their head on the ground. The sucker punch stuns them completely, so they are unable to fight back for at least a little while.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

None of us in the public have any information that might contradict GZ's story. It's all speculation, on everyone's part. Until the evidence and forensics are known, it's not a fact. So, I did answer your question. I gave a fairly detailed post about what I believe happened that night. If you don't like my answer, build a bridge and get over it.

You claim I am have attitude and yet you tell me to get over it ?

 

[KatieG]

You claim I am have attitude and yet you tell me to get over it ?

I did as you asked, I stated my opinions and what I think happened. Then you said I didn't back up my claims. The information I provided was based on the information available at this time.

I don't believe GZ's version of the events. I don't know if the forensics will back him. Right now, I don't think so.

Your posts make claims, and I am simply asking for you to elaborate on the claims, or providing information which I think proves your claim false.

You don't like my answers and you think my claims are false. Ok, so be it. We don't agree, but please don't say I didn't answer you.

 

[crimresearch]

None of us in the public have any information that might contradict GZ's story. It's all speculation, on everyone's part. Until the evidence and forensics are known, it's not a fact. So, I did answer your question. I gave a fairly detailed post about what I believe happened that night. If you don't like my answer, build a bridge and get over it.

None of us in the public have any information that might contradict GZ's story. It's all speculation, on everyone's part. Until the evidence and forensics are known, it's not a fact.

That is correct, albeit diminished by the constant 'tude.

But some of the media fueled speculation, like the 'SYG get out of jail card' among others, is easily demonstrated to be false, and on the mechanics of the law, we don't need to wait for more evidence to know how things are supposed to work..

 

[curi0us]

Did you find a direct linkage between Owens and STC or are you just going by the similarity of the software? As I reported earlier, there appears to be an open source repository of the core functions and it wouldn't be surprising to see multiple commercial spinoffs once the technology matured.

Below are the two different product spec sheets. They are not just incredibly similar, EVB is using the exact same images in their marketing material.
http://www.easyvoicebiometrics.com/docs/evbadditionalinfo.pdf
http://speechpro-usa.com/files/filefield_stats/639/565/0/05f15ec0b2fb45ccc6cc1195e34941d0

The EVB spec sheet also refers to it's "Voicegrid" methodology of multiple algorithms simultaneously looking for ID matches. The STC product is literally called "Voicegrid". The EVB write up also makes a historical (1980's) reference to the STC as being the inventors of modern day voice biometrics.

EVB literature also mentions their software was an NIST 2010 SRE submission. The NIST 2010 SRE voice biometric online documentation includes a list of all the participants. About three dozen companies and universities IIRC. STC was one, but nothing from TracerTek or Owen.

(A circumstantial issue is that Owen can't program at all. He is very retro, in 2003 he was still using magnetic tape and antique spectrographs that printed directed onto paper in black and white.)

 

[Unabogie]

Here is something that potentially contradicts Zimmerman.

Over at DailyKos, they took a still shot from a video of the crime scene.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/04/23/1085878/-Trayvon-Martin-Crime-Scene-Photo

In it, you can see that Trayvon's body is lying a good 10 feet from the sidewalk (I'll grant that the exact distance is hard to ascertain from this photo).

Some explanations:

1. Trayvon was shot while on his knees, straddling Zimmerman, then got up and staggered to the other side of that small rise.
2. Zimmerman pushed Trayvon off of him and rolled him to the spot where he ended up.
3. EMT or police moved his body.

Occam's razor seems to suggest that Trayvon was shot close to where he ended up. If so, he's not anywhere near concrete.

 

[KatieG]

That is correct, albeit diminished by the constant 'tude.

But some of the media fueled speculation, like the 'SYG get out of jail card' among others, is easily demonstrated to be false, and on the mechanics of the law, we don't need to wait for more evidence to know how things are supposed to work..

I responded to his request. Twice. He didn't like my answers and stated I wasn't backing up my claims. Since it's all MOO, how exactly do I "back" up my claims, since I'm using only information which is available to the public.

I must confess that after many weeks of discussion, I don't really understand SYG. I get the principle of it, but not the nuance behind the it. Chief Lee stated GZ was released based on SYG. What am I missing here?

See, here's the deal. I'm 57 yo disabled woman, who on occasion takes medication that diminishes my comprehension. I try to make sure what I post is factual, sometimes I make a mistake. I freely admit it when I'm proven wrong. If I'm not presenting a post as a fact, but only my opinion, why should my opinion be subjected to the same scrutiny as if I was stating a fact? Surely I'm free to believe whatever I want, even if I may be wrong.