Crackdown ordered on American nuns

[cwalner]

I hear theres maybe a few more south of the Mexican border

Oops, you caught me in a moment of Ethnocentrism. I guess I should amend my previous post to US Catholics instead of American Catholics

 

[Madalch]

Oops, you caught me in a moment of Ethnocentrism. I guess I should amend my previous post to US Catholics instead of American Catholics

Not really- people who live near the USA but are not citizens of the USA generally get ticked off when they are called "Americans". Just like the Scots and Irish don't appreciate being called "English", and the Poles and Ukrainians object to being labelled as "Russians".

 

[Moss]

[invitation to American nuns] Ladies, may I interest you in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America? It's very much like what V2 was headed for, with the added bonus of not having a pope. I mean, it has a Presiding Bishop, but how scary can he be when he dropped by our church picnic one year? (I think he was driving an Olds, not a Popemobile.) You can become pastors and bishops and get married and even be married to other ladies. Do you want to be community activists? They welcome and encourage it.

Wait, there are still Lutherans in America? They sound surprisingly liberal. Can't be that many then.

 

[autumn1971]

Wait, there are still Lutherans in America? They sound surprisingly liberal. Can't be that many then.

Well, there's two major synods, the Kanasas and The Missouri Synods, and they disagree about a few things. There is also a very wide range of possible illogic to choose from in the various individual churches. Some people list the Lutheran Church as an evangelical sect, and in many cases this is true-- my pastor was a young-Earth creationist, but admitted that it made no sense to believe such a thing in light of present knowledge. I'm sure that there are other churches that are much more liberal, as well as churches that are much more conservative.
It all reminds me of the Emo Williams joke.

 

[catsmate]

How are they on Transubstantiation?

That was my response too.

Agreed. Rome having issues with the American branches is nothing new. I loved the survey brought up during the RCC vs ACA kerfuffle that 98% of Catholic women (in the US) have used birth control.

In the US, at least, the hierarchy is a very poor representative of the laity. Pretty much the only American Catholic that I know of, who actually seems to agree with the hierarchy just dropped out of the Republican primary race.

It's not just the US, the southern Americas aren't as cowed as they used to be and Europe is also getting stroppy.

I, like the real inquistion aren't limited to an implement, I have a whole room filled with them
guess what I call the room

Dare I ask........

I hear theres maybe a few more south of the Mexican border

Actually, and at the risk of being serious for a moment, opposition to gay marriage is lower among catholics [28% strongly oppose, 15% somewhat oppose] than protestants [47% strongly oppose, 10% somewhat oppose]; catholics and hispanics in the USA both support gay marriage in the majority. (Social Science Research Solutions, data here)

 

[dropzone]

How are they on Transubstantiation?

Weeeeeel, as it has always been it's Sacramental Union, which is like consubstantiation but, as far as Luther was concerned, less icky. You'd think the difference between con- and transubstantiation was not enough to go to the stake over, much less start the Thirty Years' War over, but people didn't have TV back then. We're, to a great extent, a group of old hippies, so we don't get our underwear in a bunch over it.

 

[Craig B]

Weeeeeel, as it has always been it's Sacramental Union, which is like consubstantiation but, as far as Luther was concerned, less icky. You'd think the difference between con- and transubstantiation was not enough to go to the stake over, much less start the Thirty Years' War over, but people didn't have TV back then. We're, to a great extent, a group of old hippies, so we don't get our underwear in a bunch over it.

Don't think that'll hack it with the nuns.

 

[Beerina]

More and more I have to wonder:
Is the Vatican trying to drive people away from Catholicism?
Their PR guy is either an idiot or an atheist.

Remember in California with the gay marriage prop, where liberals were shocked, shocked! that hispanics voted against it instead of lining up in the usual "you scratch my back an I'll scratch yours" way?

Well the Catholic church is dealing wit that on a much larger scale than California.

On the one hand US Catholics donate a hugely disproportionate amount of money. On the other primary growth and size of the church is in poorer countries where more old-school attitudes still prevail.

This is just re-placing their feet while straddling the line trying to keep two important factions mildly happy.

 

[slingblade]

At first I thought crack-down was probably the optimal position for a nun, but after reading the thread, I have decided I could be mistaken.

 

[A'isha]

It all reminds me of the Emo Williams joke.

Emo Philips.

 

[fuelair]

But apparently they do toe the line. Just apparently they're not as mindlessly rabid about it as his assholiness would like.

I love that word/title and have used it for a variety of deserving personages for a rather long number of years!!!

 

[fuelair]

Social activism isn't uncommon among the female religious, e.g. Sr. Stan, along with charitable work. It seems the Vatican, or at least the former rotweiller of orthodoxy, feels their efforts should be better focussed on opposing access to legal abortion, opposing marriage equality et cetera.
The support of LCWR and Network for US health care reform was particularly annoying to the hierarchy.

However in conjunction with other actions, like the silencing of Tony Flannery (exiled to a monastery to contemplate his sins), this crackdown may prove counter-productive to the aim of maintaining Roman control.

Coming up from Ratzi's Gang: crucifictions )nun of that now!!!)!

 

[fuelair]

And after that, the oral sex!

I thought the Vatican really has a hard on for choirboys where that sort of thing is involved.

 

[Peacock]

More abortions = Less children to diddle. No wonder they're so upset.

 

[Lensman]

Not really- people who live near the USA but are not citizens of the USA generally get ticked off when they are called "Americans". Just like the Scots and Irish don't appreciate being called "English", and the Poles and Ukrainians object to being labelled as "Russians".

I'm not Russian - I just walk fast.

 

[HansMustermann]

I don't think it's as easy as "less kids to diddle." It's something they painted themselves into a corner by infallible pronouncements, which incidentally can't be ever undone even by another infallible pronouncement. In fact, by definition, you can't use your own infallibility to override someone else's infallibility. Of there is a possibility to fail, then it wouldn't have been infallible to start with.

The issue is: does a zygote have a soul right from conception? If it does, then abortion is murder.

Now you or I might go, "who cares?" or "that's silly. Were does one of the two souls chimaera foetuses go?" But the RCC has at least two infallible pronouncements, one by Pope Pius IX and one by the Council Of Trent (yes, ecumenical councils can also be infallible), that depend on Mary (and really anyone else) having a soul and counting as a human being from the instant of conception.

And what makes it impossible to revoke it, is the condition that defines an infallible pronouncement. I'll get into that, because it's funny. And you know me, if there's piss to be taken, I have to roll for will power to not take it.

Basically you know the stereotype of the Internet troll who, when he runs out of arguments, unilaterally proclaims he won, calls you names, and threatens to come over and punch your lights out if you continue to disagree? Yeah, you know that kind of Internet tough guy.

Well, when the church does exactly that, it means they're infallibly right. If they ran out of ideas of how to support something and unilaterally proclaims that that's it, you're wrong, they're right, and if you continue to disagree, you're anathema and god WILL torture you for it... that's what makes a pronouncement be infallible.

Which creates the problem that you can't really roll back any of those two, because that's exactly what they do. There is no "well, we didn't really mean it when we said we'd come over and punch your lights out" way of escape.

So, really, they just painted themselves into a corner. They're stuck with that dogma now, regardless of what science or common sense or societal mores may say on the topic. They may fudge it or change their mind about how much of Genesis is metaphor, and go with science and all, but not really about whether 1 day old fetuses have a soul. Regardless of what science may say, they're stuck with THAT one

 

[dropzone]

Don't think that'll hack it with the nuns.

I don't know--modern nuns are a bunch of commies.

 

[welshdean]

What are they going to do, de-nun them?

De-frock them. Now!

The average age of a nun in the US is 70. ?

Ugh. Delay that last order No.1

 

[Ausmerican]

I, like the real inquistion aren't limited to an implement, I have a whole room filled with them
guess what I call the room

The auto da fe?
Or just The Inquisition?

 

[Puppycow]

When will American Catholics finally break away from the Vatican? They don't need the Pope, and they pretty much ignore him already.

That would make them Protestants, would it not?

Not that there's anything wrong with that.