Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[RandFan]

Breaking News:

Affidavit: Zimmerman 'profiled' and 'confronted' Martin

Or not.. looks like more BS from CNN again. But I'm not sure. I can't find any source other than TM's mother making that claim.

ETA:

Martin's family has also said a Sanford police detective filed an affidavit saying he did not find Zimmerman's statements after the shooting credible -- but that Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee and State Attorney Norm Wolfinger met the night of the shooting and disregarded the detective's advice.

Yeah, nothing to see here.

 

[Moss]

Any sense in charging him with Murder 2 to get him to plead guilty to manslaughter?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Maybe he got lost and made a wrong turn? Extremely plausible, as he was not a full time resident there, and it was dark and rainy.

I'm sorry, my sarcasm detector seems to be broken - you are joking, aren't you ?

 

[triforcharity]

I'm sorry, my sarcasm detector seems to be broken - you are joking, aren't you ?

Nope. Both scenarios are quite possible. You ever run into a tree at full speed while looking behind you? I have. It hurts. Really bad. Can even knock you right the **** out sometimes.

Do you not find either of those plausible? If not, why not?

 

[triforcharity]

Any sense in charging him with Murder 2 to get him to plead guilty to manslaughter?

Sure, possibly. However, as I have said before, there could be evidence that supports the Murder 2 charge that we haven't seen.

Maybe even some eyewitnesses that we haven't heard from.

 

[RandFan]

I wasn't able to keep up with the thread. It's probably been posted so just ignore it if it has.

PDF file of Charges Filed.

 

[crimresearch]

Any sense in charging him with Murder 2 to get him to plead guilty to manslaughter?

Prosecutors have done things like that.

On the other hand, I don't see any reports of other charges being piled on to make the lower offer more attractive (another classic tactic), and according to what's known publicly, 2nd degree seems straighforward.

 

[SezMe]

Can you give me a plausible and probable explanation of how TM could not get away from GZ ? How it was something other than TM stopping and heading back towards zimmerman ?

1) Stopping. Not heading back towards Zimmerman, just stopping. He might be thinking, "Hey, why am I running from this dude?"
2) Zimmerman yells out something which Martin hears but doesn't understand so he turns around to see what's up.
3) Gets lost (already mentioned)
4) Trips or hits something (already mentioned).

There's no reason for you to call #3 and #4 "joking". They are "plausible". Nobody can assert probability with any degree of credibility so I'm not even sure how that part of the request even makes sense.

 

[triforcharity]

I wasn't able to keep up with the thread. It's probably been posted so just ignore it if it has.

PDF file of Charges Filed.

Here's the charged sections.

782.04 (2)

"(2) The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084."


http://www.leg.state.fl.us/STATUTES...ing=&URL=0700-0799/0782/Sections/0782.04.html


775.087 (1) and (2) are here


http://www.leg.state.fl.us/STATUTES...ng=&URL=0700-0799/0775/Sections/0775.087.html

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

You're on. How much would you like to bet?

p.s. I'm assuming you meant "discretion" where you wrote "descreation".

I'm with you for the simple reason that if they are allowed and he/she doesn't allow them, there's going to be a huge outcry and probably also much higher chance of people being inflamed if the verdict is not what they want. I think allowing it to be public mitigates that.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

1) Stopping. Not heading back towards Zimmerman, just stopping. He might be thinking, "Hey, why am I running from this dude?"
2) Zimmerman yells out something which Martin hears but doesn't understand so he turns around to see what's up.
3) Gets lost (already mentioned)
4) Trips or hits something (already mentioned).

There's no reason for you to call #3 and #4 "joking". They are "plausible". Nobody can assert probability with any degree of credibility so I'm not even sure how that part of the request even makes sense.

Well, JK said "strikes me as significantly less probable" ... so he obviously finds one action more probable than the other.

If you actually went through the map and the 911 call ....

1) where did TM stop and just wait for 2 minutes, while being scared of being followed by a scary guy ?
2) when on the 911 call did you hear zimmerman call out to TM ?
3) there is the way he went in, the way zimmerman went, and the way home. I'm not sure where getting lost fits into those options
4) trips or hits a tree and is stunned for 2 minutes, and hidden from GZ view. Yes, that sounds like a joke to me.

None of those things make any sense in the context of the 911 call and the map, nor did you try to make them make any sense.

 

[PhantomWolf]

The one piece of solid evidence we do have - and the one that most sways me against Zimmerman - is the fact that the last verified account prior to the altercation places Zimmerman in pursuit of Martin, who was running away from him.

That Zimmerman suddenly stopped chasing him and Martin suddenly decided to turn around and attack Zimmerman strikes me as significantly less probable than a scenario in which Zimmerman continued to pursue Martin and the altercation ensuing from Zimmerman eventually catching him.

If Martin had really been "running" away from him, there is no way that Zimmerman would have caught him, Martin was way fitter and and lighter and had a head start, he could have easily left GZ in his dust.

 

[dudalb]

Nancy Grace is now making the Zimmerman the focus of her show.
God, as if the coverage was not bad enough........

 

[dudalb]

If you were on the jury right now you would be expected to form your opinion based entirely on the evidence provided in court, and to disregard the things you may have read in the media, or on these boards. Voting to acquit based entirely on what you have heard (read) so far would be extremeny unethical.

That is the way is should work, but any good lawyer will tell you that is not the way it works with jurors in the real world.Which is why both the Prosecution and the Defense try to "seed" the minds of prospective jurors in the media. ...although both sides deny they are trying to do that.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Nope. Both scenarios are quite possible. You ever run into a tree at full speed while looking behind you? I have. It hurts. Really bad. Can even knock you right the **** out sometimes.

Do you not find either of those plausible? If not, why not?

I don't find it probable TM got lost.
There are 2 directions for him to go when he walks down the sidewalk towards his fathers fiances house. East and South. South is home. GZ went east and didn't see him. Did he accidentally go north and run into someone else back patio ?

As for the tree ... he hit the tree ... and then .. what ? Stood there hidden behind a 3 inch tree as GZ walked past him on the phone, then back past him again ?

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

4) trips or hits a tree and is stunned for 2 minutes, and hidden from GZ view. Yes, that sounds like a joke to me.

Maybe there was an alien encounter of some type. I hear that people lose blocks of time when those occur. In fact, maybe that would explain this entire thing. They might have done something to GZ too.

 

[johnny karate]

It's not about favoring one particular race over another, it's about the angle they picked for each individual story.

Agreed.

No but if the prosecutor is painting a picture of a murderer, the defense will paint a picture of a man with good intentions and the situation got out of his control. The mother later claims that she meant something else but the words she used describes a situation where a man made a mistake, not a that of a murderer. A lot of statements made to the media will probably get into the trial. They won't be admitted as evidence but as an alternative theory.

Maybe. I just don't see it as likely that a statement of opinion made by Trayvon's mother - that she has since retracted - will matter all that much.

 

[portlandatheist]

I have a random question that I hope someone can clarify. I don't own a gun nor have I taken any self defense courses but my understanding is that law enforcement and private citizens(in self defense courses) are trained that if they do decide to shoot, ALWAYS shoot to kill and never to injure. Is this understanding correct? (This has nothing to do with stand your ground by the way)

 

[johnny karate]

Can you give me a plausible and probable explanation of how TM could not get away from GZ ? How it was something other than TM stopping and heading back towards zimmerman ?

http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/evidence-that-trayvon-martin-doubled-back
has a map and the unedited 911 call. Ignore what you may or may not think about the sites or the author - just explain to me how from 2:20 into the call , for almost an additional 2 more minutes TM could not manage to make it home, and was 'chased down' by GZ.

Martin sees Zimmerman watching him and then get out of his car and come towards him.

Martin runs away.

Zimmerman chases him.

Martin loses sight of Zimmerman. But it's dark and raining, and he's in an unfamiliar neighborhood, so now he's lost.

Zimmerman - who knows the neighborhood much better - is able to find Martin again.

The altercation ensues.

I'm not sure why you would think that is so wildly implausible.

 

[RandFan]

Here's the charged sections.

782.04 (2)

"(2) The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084."

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/STATUTES...ing=&URL=0700-0799/0782/Sections/0782.04.html

775.087 (1) and (2) are here

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/STATUTES...ng=&URL=0700-0799/0775/Sections/0775.087.html

Thank you. Much appreciated.