Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[LTC8K6]

http://www.ctnow.com/news/nationwor...mmerman-charged-jail-20120412,0,7598410.story

That affidavit seems to match the Martin family lawyer's version of events.

I wonder how they can know who confronted who?

 

[sgtbaker]

Every major news outlet also ran enhanced stills and/or video of Zimmerman's injuries.

After two days of running pictures asking where the injuries were.

CNN also broke the story in which they used audio forensics to disprove Zimmerman uttered a racial slur during his 911 call.

Sure but not before they ran this one
http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/22/did-trayvon-martins-shooter-use-slur-in-911-tapes/

But none of that matters.

The important thing is to keep the lying, scheming parents of Trayvon Martin under the microscope

FWIW, I don't think the parents are spinning this, I think the mother gave an answer, this morning and the attorney probably said that comments like that won't help your son get justice because a comment like that would be brought up by a defense attorney.

 

[LTC8K6]

Audio forensics is woo. Except where it helps Zimmerman, in which case it's bleeding edge science.

It can't compete with Mom, though.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Yes, what we need to be doing is scrutinizing every word from these grieving parents.

If by we you mean the media, that looks to be correct.

Because we didn't cause her to make two retractions within hours of saying something she probably honestly thought.

As a parent of teenagers I sympathize greatly with TM parents. But they are more than just grieving parents at this point. And their every word is going to be scrutinized, whether you think it reasonable or not.

 

[johnny karate]

After two days of running pictures asking where the injuries were.

Sure but not before they ran this one
http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/22/did-trayvon-martins-shooter-use-slur-in-911-tapes/

The point being that media doesn't have some knee-jerk bias against Zimmerman. They run whatever story they think is newsworthy, regardless of it's factual content, and regardless of who in this case it might benefit.

FWIW, I don't think the parents are spinning this, I think the mother gave an answer, this morning and the attorney probably said that comments like that won't help your son get justice because a comment like that would be brought up by a defense attorney.

I don't see how a grieving mother's opinion of the crime helps or hinders anyone's case.

 

[johnny karate]

If by we you mean the media, that looks to be correct.

No, by "we" I meant those of us in this thread who take umbrage at what they perceive to be dishonesty on the part of the Martin family, but are strangely silent when members of the Zimmerman family make outlandish claims.

 

[AlBell]

Zimmerman, whose father is white and his mother Peruvian, says he shot Martin, who was black, in self-defense Feb. 26 after following him in a gated community in Sanford.

I wonder what color Peruvian is ?

Usually brownish. Some look white-enough though.

 

[AlBell]

There's enough uncertainty in the evidence that I doubt any prosecutor would try for any degree of murder. The idea is to prosecuteindict for the highest charge you can make stick. So manslaughter seems the logical way to go, possibly negligent homicide (or the FL equivalent).

Jury instructions may include lesser offenses, in this case maybe manslaughter.

I suspect the SA thinks she can make manslaughter stick, but might as well try for the more serious charge.

 

[dudalb]

This whole thread has become a major league example of confirmation bias. I am convinced that people on both sides have already made up their minds as to Zimmerman's guilt or innocence, based largely on political bias,and they will just ignore or wave away any evidence that disagrees with their opinions.
More proof why the political oriented forums of JRRF (US Politics, Non US Politics, and this one) are known as "Where Rational Thought on JRRF Goes To Die".

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Zimmerman, whose father is white and his mother Peruvian, says he shot Martin, who was black, in self-defense Feb. 26 after following him in a gated community in Sanford.

I wonder what color Peruvian is ?

Usually brownish. Some look white-enough though.

I'll be sure to add a smilie or sarcasm tags the next time.

 

[LTC8K6]

No, by "we" I meant those of us in this thread who take umbrage at what they perceive to be dishonesty on the part of the Martin family, but are strangely silent when members of the Zimmerman family make outlandish claims.

Well, I stick strongly to the idea that Zimmerman is innocent until proven guilty, so yeah, I'm harder on the martin family's biases, and I give Zimmerman the benefit of the doubt.

If the affidavit is any indication of what the prosecutor has for evidence, Zimmerman will walk easily.

We just don't know, though.

And it's too hard to wait.

 

[crimresearch]

This whole thread has become a major league example of confirmation bias. I am convinced that people on both sides have already made up their minds as to Zimmerman's guilt or innocence, based largely on political bias,and they will just ignore or wave away any evidence that disagrees with their opinions.
More proof why the political oriented forums of JRRF (US Politics, Non US Politics, and this one) are known as "Where Rational Thought on JRRF Goes To Die".

Well, it isn't too late for you to step away from the confimation bias you just displayed, and try critical analysis like many people here are employing.

 

[sgtbaker]

The point being that media doesn't have some knee-jerk bias against Zimmerman. They run whatever story they think is newsworthy, regardless of it's factual content, and regardless of who in this case it might benefit.

I think they picked their angle and went with it. There have been quite a few dishonesties in the media, NBC being the worst example. There were other's such as the snipping of 2 minutes out of the dispatcher calls, editing out the part where GZ said, "I don't know where he is." There has been the repeated "armed with a bag of skittles and an ice tea." They continued to quote up to the part where the dispatcher said, "we don't need you to do that," and never quote Zimmerman saying, "Okay." The fact that some counter claims have become available does benefit them because hey, more headlines.

I don't see how a grieving mother's opinion of the crime helps or hinders anyone's case

Do you think that she will testify as a character witness?

 

[johnny karate]

Well, I stick strongly to the idea that Zimmerman is innocent until proven guilty, so yeah, I'm harder on the martin family's biases, and I give Zimmerman the benefit of the doubt.

I respect your point of view, but I honestly don't understand it. The "benefit of the doubt" that you seem to be granting Zimmerman is that he acted in self-defense despite a lack of solid evidence to support that claim.

The benefit of the doubt that I grant is in regards to a teenage boy walking home from the store deciding to viciously attack someone. I see no reason to believe this is the case until evidence other than the word of the guy who killed him presents itself.

And as for the Martin family, I'm willing to give them a lot of leeway. I know nothing they say can be taken as factual, and that the grief and anger they must be feeling are having an impact on their thought processes.

 

[sgtbaker]

No, by "we" I meant those of us in this thread who take umbrage at what they perceive to be dishonesty on the part of the Martin family, but are strangely silent when members of the Zimmerman family make outlandish claims.

I've only countered anything the Martin family has said when it is brought up as thought it's evidence. I would do the same if anyone brought up anything the Zimmerman family has said as evidence. I haven't seen that happen, as a matter of fact, I've seem quite a few people say that Zimmerman would do better if his family just shut up.

 

[jhunter1163]

I'm not on either "side" at this point. I think he was justifiably charged, but if I were on the jury right now I'd have to vote to acquit. There's a reasonable doubt in my mind as to Zimmerman's guilt. Of course, my opinion will be subject to revision as the case progresses and more information comes out.

 

[johnny karate]

I think they picked their angle and went with it. There have been quite a few dishonesties in the media, NBC being the worst example. There were other's such as the snipping of 2 minutes out of the dispatcher calls, editing out the part where GZ said, "I don't know where he is." There has been the repeated "armed with a bag of skittles and an ice tea." They continued to quote up to the part where the dispatcher said, "we don't need you to do that," and never quote Zimmerman saying, "Okay." The fact that some counter claims have become available does benefit them because hey, more headlines.

I won't deny the media has spun this story, and usually not in Zimmerman's favor. But again, they are going with the narratives most likely to draw viewers or garner hits on their respective websites. The media has and always will sensationalize news stories. I just don't think it's been done in some concerted, conscious effort to demonize George Zimmerman.

And what's hilarious about the idea that the media is out to get Zimmerman because of racial bias is that this comes just 15+ years after the O.J. Simpson case and all the same claims being made regarding him (e.g. the infamous Time magazine cover).

So either the media has done a complete 180 in their collective opinion on race in the last two decades, or they're just generally full of s***.

Do you think that she will testify as a character witness?

She might. But again, her opinion won't factor into the factual establishment of the crime.

 

[johnny karate]

I've only countered anything the Martin family has said when it is brought up as thought it's evidence. I would do the same if anyone brought up anything the Zimmerman family has said as evidence. I haven't seen that happen, as a matter of fact, I've seem quite a few people say that Zimmerman would do better if his family just shut up.

I wasn't necessarily including you in my previous post. We may not agree on everything, but I've always felt you've presented your arguments fairly.

 

[LTC8K6]

I respect your point of view, but I honestly don't understand it. The "benefit of the doubt" that you seem to be granting Zimmerman is that he acted in self-defense despite a lack of solid evidence to support that claim.

The benefit of the doubt that I grant is in regards to a teenage boy walking home from the store deciding to viciously attack someone. I see no reason to believe this is the case until evidence other than the word of the guy who killed him presents itself.

And as for the Martin family, I'm willing to give them a lot of leeway. I know nothing they say can be taken as factual, and that the grief and anger they must be feeling are having an impact on their thought processes.

Zimmerman doesn't need solid evidence to back his claim. The prosecutor needs solid evidence to bust it. That's the way I look at it. Zimmerman's story is not implausible or immediately dismissible as a lie, so it has to be broken with evidence/proof, imo.

What solid evidence do we have anyway? We have a dead 17 year old with a GSW to the chest, and an admitted shooter with injuries to the back of his head, and a claim of self defense. We also have several 911 calls, with various interpretations. We have a few witnesses, the biggest of which seems to support Zimmerman's story.

We also have a first investigation, which apparently did not result in charges.

If the prosecutor has good evidence of 2nd degree murder, then she will win her case, but I haven't seen or heard of such evidence.

If her evidence consists of statements like "Trayvon's Mother said it was Trayvon screaming.", I just don't think that will go very far.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

Audio forensics is woo. Except where it helps Zimmerman, in which case it's bleeding edge science.

We finally find something we agree on. For example just look at this thread and what happens when the voice analysis, in this case a voice stress test favors GZ, and the poster says:

...as the OP says, this is just more woo.

Oh wait a minute, that was me, and I viewed the woo with the identical skepticism I viewed the woo from the jokers who claimed it wasn't GZ screaming. As it seems did most of the others on "my side".

Oh well, here's what's probably a much better example of the lengths people will go to embrace what fits their view of guilt, where a guy tries to suggest with a straight face that because on MySpace GZ's used the nickname niggytb for himself that it may indicates his depraved mind and why he intended to kill.

That he uses racial slurs against black people isn't important? It goes to his "depraved mind" and why he may have intended to kill.

Oh wait a minute, that was you. Never mind.