The Incredible odds of fulfilled bible prophecy

Wildy said:
Are we sure that the Nineveh passage is about the size of the city? I guess I'm reading the passage wrong because I would have thought that it was saying that the city was three days away from wherever Jonah was at the time. But if that's right then it just raises even more questions.
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Here are the relevant verses (Jonah 3:1 - 4):

And the word of [Yahweh] came to Jonah a second time, saying, "Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city and preach to it the preaching that I bid thee." So Jonah arose and went to Nineveh, according to the word of [Yahweh]. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days journey And Jonah began to enter the city a day's journey, and he cried and said, "In forty days Nineveh shall be overthrown."

The area in bold type is what's in question. Yes, the language is sufficiently vague that one might see it as only a days journey away, or that it was three days journey away.

Since Nineveh is on the eastern bank of the Tigris River, about 500 miles from the eastern coast of the Mediterranean Sea, where the whale would have barfed up Jonah, and since about the best time Jonah could make in a day would have been about 15 miles, it couldn't have been three days journey to get there. Thus, it seems far more likely that what is meant in the passage is that the city was so huge, it would take three days to cross it. So Jonah walked about a third of the way into the city and began telling the Ninevites their city would be destroyed in 40 days.
 
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Billy Graham on the Book of Revelation

From his book Storm Warnings (pg. 71):

"We may not understand everything {about Revelation}-- but that does not mean we can't understand something... John wrote Revelation in a certain type of poetic language known as an apocalyptic language. An Apocalyptic writer ... was one who used vivid imagery and symbolism to speak about God’s judgment... The difficulty, of course, is that this style of writing, using vivid word pictures and symbols, is quite foreign to us today. Undoubtedly most of John’s first readers had little difficulty understanding what his symbols stood for and which of them were symbols and which were not. It takes careful study for us today to understand some of the more obscure parts of his message (much of it quoted from the Old Testament), and some of them we may never understand fully.
Again this does not mean John’s message is lost to us today. The opposite is true. We will be richly rewarded when we take the trouble to dig into the treasures of Revelation. Don’t think of John’s vivid language as a barrier to understanding; see it instead as the way he painted the picture of God’s plan for the future in incredibly vivid colors.”
 
DOC said:
type of poetic language known as an apocalyptic language.
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Also called self-delusional rantings.

DOC said:
The difficulty, of course, is that this style of writing, using vivid word pictures and symbols, is quite foreign to us today.
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I'm guessing Billy Graham never read Naked Lunch.


DOC said:
Undoubtedly most of John’s first readers had little difficulty understanding what his symbols stood for and which of them were symbols and which were not.
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Of course. He was writing about current events.

DOC said:
It takes careful study for us today to understand some of the more obscure parts of his message (much of it quoted from the Old Testament),
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Yes. As an Apocalyptic Jew, he would be very reliant upon the Old Testament.

DOC said:
Again this does not mean John’s message is lost to us today. The opposite is true. We will be richly rewarded when we take the trouble to dig into the treasures of Revelation.
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Yup. There's some great books on it.
http://www.amazon.com/Revelations-V...3345/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1334087631&sr=8-1

DOC said:
Don’t think of John’s vivid language as a barrier to understanding; see it instead as the way he painted the picture of God’s plan for the future in incredibly vivid colors.”
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Again, you should read Naked Lunch. It's loaded with vivid imagery.
 
DOC said:
From his book Storm Warnings (pg. 71):

... the way he painted the picture of God’s plan for the future in incredibly vivid colors.”
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The plan that the dragon in my garage has for the future could also be painted in incredibly vivid colours.
The dragon is still an imaginary being.
 
DOC said:
From his book Storm Warnings (pg. 71):

"We may not understand everything {about Revelation}-- but that does not mean we can't understand something... John wrote Revelation in a certain type of poetic language known as an apocalyptic language. An Apocalyptic writer ... was one who used vivid imagery and symbolism to speak about God’s judgment... The difficulty, of course, is that this style of writing, using vivid word pictures and symbols, is quite foreign to us today. Undoubtedly most of John’s first readers had little difficulty understanding what his symbols stood for and which of them were symbols and which were not. It takes careful study for us today to understand some of the more obscure parts of his message (much of it quoted from the Old Testament), and some of them we may never understand fully.
Again this does not mean John’s message is lost to us today. The opposite is true. We will be richly rewarded when we take the trouble to dig into the treasures of Revelation. Don’t think of John’s vivid language as a barrier to understanding; see it instead as the way he painted the picture of God’s plan for the future in incredibly vivid colors.”
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The first verse of Revelation still says that it describes, " . . . what must soon come to pass." Do you see Revelation as an already fulfilled prophecy?
 
DOC said:
From his book Storm Warnings (pg. 71):

...Don’t think of John’s vivid language as a barrier to understanding; see it instead as the way he painted the picture of God’s plan for the future in incredibly vivid colors.”
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What does this have to do with the bible's fulfilled prophecies, DOC?
 
At least I have come around to DOC's point of view on one particular issue: This thread is not about him, or his opinions. It's about the opinions of the person or persons he meets once a week (bible class?). And possibly those of Billy Graham (and assorted presidents).
 
TimCallahan said:
The first verse of Revelation still says that it describes, " . . . what must soon come to pass." Do you see Revelation as an already fulfilled prophecy?
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A Jehovah's Witness once argued with me that the Second Coming would be soon, on the strength of this verse. In the Bible it says soon, and that was good enough for him.
 
TimCallahan said:
The first verse of Revelation still says that it describes, " . . . what must soon come to pass."
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Sound weasel-y already.

To paraphrase William Jeffrson Clinton...

"It depends on what your definition of "soon" is.

Or to paraphrase the definition of insanity...

"Prophesying the same thing over and over and expecting a result eventually..."
 
pakeha
Originally Posted by DOC View Post
From his book Storm Warnings (pg. 71):

...Don’t think of John’s vivid language as a barrier to understanding; see it instead as the way he painted the picture of God’s plan for the future in incredibly vivid colors.”
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What does this have to do with the bible's fulfilled prophecies, DOC?
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Wildy said:
Straw grasping.
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Helen said:
At least I have come around to DOC's point of view on one particular issue: This thread is not about him, or his opinions. It's about the opinions of the person or persons he meets once a week (bible class?). And possibly those of Billy Graham (and assorted presidents).
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joobz said:
Considering it hasn't "soon come to pass", it is clearly another failed prophecy.
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Hmmm. All three answers make sense at this point.
I confess to some degree of curiosity about DOC's reply.
I sense it's time for the 'gazillion manscripts' riposte again.
 
joobz said:
Considering it hasn't "soon come to pass", it is clearly another failed prophecy.
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What do you mean by "it", do you mean the thousand year reign John talks of must soon come to pass?
 
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dafydd said:
It didn't come to pass, that is the point. Yet another failed bible prophecy.
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How can a thousand year reign come to pass soon, so there must be another explanation of the come to pass shortly verse. I'll give some other responses to this issue as time permits.
 
DOC said:
How can a thousand year reign come to pass soon, so there must be another explanation of the come to pass shortly verse. I'll give some other responses to this issue as time permits.
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You mean your response will come to pass shortly?
 
DOC said:
How can a thousand year reign come to pass soon, so there must be another explanation of the come to pass shortly verse.
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Well, one has certainly been suggested by several posters here already.

If someone says a thousand year reign will happen soon, if it hasn't even begun two thousand years later then I think we're entitled to say the prophecy has failed.

What specific prophecy are you referring to?
 
DOC said:
How can a thousand year reign come to pass soon, so there must be another explanation of the come to pass shortly verse. I'll give some other responses to this issue as time permits.
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zooterkin said:
Well, one has certainly been suggested by several posters here already.

If someone says a thousand year reign will happen soon, if it hasn't even begun two thousand years later then I think we're entitled to say the prophecy has failed.

What specific prophecy are you referring to?
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I'm sure DOC will soon have a reason why 1000 years is a long time, but 2000 years still counts as 'soon'.
 
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