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JFK Conspiracy Theories: It Never Ends

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LSSBB said:
I'm from South Bend mysellf and have a brother in Antwerp and another in Syracuse that bracket you. I live in the Chicago South Suburbs right up US 30 from ya, plus 2-3 hrs and lots of cornfields.
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I do a lot of work in Elkhart and St Joe counties, and have two clients in Syracuse. :)
 
JayUtah said:
My recollection is that Jack White backed away from Wilson in the ensuing years, mostly because Wilson never let anyone review or verify his methods. But I haven't followed it in many years, so my memory may be faulty.

But yes, Robert does seem to be particularly susceptible to pseudoscience.
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That's the general consensus of the CTs I follow. White has health problems and is absent from the forums, at least posting. Not that it's any big loss on the posts other than the entertainment value. I did enjoy driving him nuts.

Too bad about his health though.
 
Robert Prey said:
If so, then document where Scalise swore to it.
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I apologize for the delay in getting back to you on this.
The below is not a sworn statement as in a court of law, but nonetheless, Vincent Scalise did examine the first-generation images of the photographs of the rifle, and did conclude they were Oswald's prints, to the exclusion of all other fingerprints in the world. He did put that in writing. Vincent Scalise is a noted expert on fingerprints, and was a member of the HSCA's 1978 forensic panel.

As the book was headed to press, an independent examination of Rusty's trigger-housing photos was done for the television program FRONTLINE by Vincent J. Scalice, a Certified Latent Print Examiner. Scalice was the fingerprint expert used by the HSCA in 1978. He stated in a letter of conclusions to the author that "Based upon the results of this examination and comparison, it is logical to assume that ALL of these photographs, which exhibit varying degrees of contrast, were not available for detailed comparison purposes in 1963 or 1978." Scalice had not seen all of the photos possessed by Rusty before.

Instead of focusing on only the clearest photograph (detailed in this chapter as performed by Captain Powdrill), Scalice used different enhancement techniques with all of the photographs. He stated. "It was necessary to utilize all of the photographs in order to carry out this procedure as the photographs were taken at different exposures ranging from light to medium and dark. As a result of the varying degrees of contrast from photo to photo, it became possible to locate and identify a sufficient amount of identifying characteristics on which to base a positive identification. As a result of an exacting and detailed examination and comparison under varying degrees of magnification and illumination, I have reached the conclusion that the developed latent prints are the fingerprints of Lee Harvey Oswald's right middle finger (#3) and right ring finger (#4) as they appear on the inked fingerprint card [JFK Exhibit F-400 of the HSCA]."

A comparison was also done by Scalice of Rusty's fingerprint card to JFK Exhibit F-400. He determined that "the inkless prints taken by Rusty [and J. B. Hicks] were indeed those of Lee Harvey Oswald, as they compared favorably with the inked impressions taken on 8-9-63."

Although the trigger-housing fingerprints were "extremely faint and barely distinguishable" and "partially distorted," a positive identification of Lee Harvey Oswald was made by Scalice. This is perhaps the most important finding made since the time of the assassination. It may now be stated as fact that the fingerprints of Lee Harvey Oswald were left behind on the trigger housing of the rifle found on the sixth floor of the Book Depository.

http://www.jfk-online.com/prints.html

Note the footnote 11 quoted here:
11. "Initially, only Oswald's partial palm print was identified under the barrel of the rifle (10 points of identification are usually required for a positive ID). In 1992, I met with Rusty Livingston, a former Dallas policeman assigned to the crime lab at the time of the assassination. Livingston had saved high contrast photo prints of the rifle, taken before it was shipped to FBI headquarters in Washington. The photos contained evidence that had gone unnoticed, and when Frontline had them analyzed, Oswald's guilt seemed even more certain. Vincent Scalice, a renowned fingerprint expert and HSCA consultant, was engaged by Frontline and expressed astonishment at what he saw -- three fingers from Oswald's right hand had left their mark just inches from the trigger.

"Scalice, in fact, had located a whopping 18 points of identification. After the production aired, he continued his work and increased the total to 24 points. "If I had seen these four photographs in 1978," says Scalice, "I would have been able to make an identification at that point in time. After this reexamination, I definitely conclude these are Oswald's prints. There is no doubt about it." Other experts pointed out that the prints were "fresh" because they would not last long on a smooth, oily metal surface such as the trigger guard housing." (Gus Russo, Live by the Sword [Baltimore, Maryland: Bancroft Press, 1998] p. 462.)

HAnk
 
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:rolleyes:
infocusinc said:
Tom Wilson in TMWKK.

Starts at the 4 min mark.

This is Roberts definition of an "expert"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTuxgGgPBss&feature=gv
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I don't think I've ever seen a better example of a so-called 'expert' jump to spurious conclusions from spurious analysis combined with an obvious bias towards a conclusion that he clearly favours emotionally. If it wasn't so sad to see somebody so obviously deluded it would be laughable. No wonder his efforts to convince the media and Government have been 'thwarted' at every turn. I wonder whether Wilson has ever really stopped and wondered why that is!
 
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And The Beat Goes On...

Garrison said:
When testimony contradicts physical evidence you have to dismiss the testimony. Also given your lack of credibility, owing to making easily debunked claims, your stance on this issue carries no weight.
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Robert doesn't have a "stance." As I opined (months ago!) it became apparent to me (last year!) that Robert has never had an original thought about the JFK assassination and the scribblings on his limited set of conspiracy flashcards that he plays over and over are cribbed from his small library of conspiracy books and most of those books were written by one Harrison Edward Livingstone (High Treason, et al).


Re: "The unimpeachable Parkland wittnesses."

If a group of doctors all say that they saw a certain type of wound, and there is no credible evidence to controvert it, giving credence to a suspect photograph is a mistake. A contradictory photograph should be suspicious rather than the statements. Their observation becomes a fact.

Livingstone, Killing the Truth: Deceit and Deception in the JFK Case (New York: Carroll & Graf Publishers, Inc., 1993), p. 52.
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If a number of eyewitnesses describe a wound of exit towards the back of the President's head, Livingstone says, that

the photographs and X-rays showing the back of the head [intact] are false and cannot possibly be correct.

Livingstone, High Treason 2: The Great Cover-Up: The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy (New York: Carroll & Graf Publishers, Inc., 1992), p. 71.
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In any event, this thread is not about the Kennedy assassination. It's about Robert showing up the "deep thinkers" on this forum and "winning." He is such a caricature of the empty-headed conspiracy theorist that some have suggested he doesn't even believe the stuff he's posting and is pulling some sort of elaborate prank.

As for the insane continuance of this thread, it comes down to a matter of pride. If people stop responding to Robert (as they should in my opinion), he will declare that he has "won." (He has in fact already said this.)

As I said (weeks, months ago, last year... whenever) I have no emotional investment in the truth or falsehood of a conspiracy to kill JFK. Others, on both sides, obviously do, hence this never ending thread.
 
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Robert Prey said:
Computer expert Tom Wilson explains it all for you in Living Color in "The Men Who Killed Kennedy."
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Where did the fatal shot come from, Robert?

Tom Wilson says, in the video you cite, that the head shot came not from the grassy knoll, but from the storm drain on the street.

He says the shooter seen in the Badgeman photo didn't fire the fatal shot. Neither did it come from behind the fence.

According to Wilson, starting at 12:34:
"...President Kennedy's wound, in his right temporal area, is at an angle like this [pointing], it's coming out of the ground ... President Kennedy was assassinated by a man firing a missile from inside the manhole cover at the bottom of the steps in Dealey Plaza."

He says there's no doubt in his mind that's where the shot came from.

So you've just introduced another shooter!

Where did the fatal shot come from, Robert?

You previously cited deaf mute Ed Hoffman as seeing the grassy knoll shooter. Your latest witness - Tom Wilson - disputes that entirely.

So where did the fatal shot come from, Robert?
Do you even have a clue?

Remember you have to get all these shots in within your four to seven shot scenario:

1. First missed shot
2. Shot to JFK's back
3. Shot to JFK's neck
4. Shot to Connally
5. Shot to JFK's head from Sewer Drain
6. Shot to JFK's head (missed?) from Grassy Knoll
7. Shot to James Tague
8. Shot to windshield

Am I missing anything?
Please provide your scenario.

Hank
 
HSienzant said:
Where did the fatal shot come from, Robert?

Tom Wilson says, in the video you cite, that the head shot came not from the grassy knoll, but from the storm drain on the street.

He says the shooter seen in the Badgeman photo didn't fire the fatal shot. Neither did it come from behind the fence.

According to Wilson, starting at 12:34:
"...President Kennedy's wound, in his right temporal area, is at an angle like this [pointing], it's coming out of the ground ... President Kennedy was assassinated by a man firing a missile from inside the manhole cover at the bottom of the steps in Dealey Plaza."

He says there's no doubt in his mind that's where the shot came from.

So you've just introduced another shooter!

Where did the fatal shot come from, Robert?

You previously cited deaf mute Ed Hoffman as seeing the grassy knoll shooter. Your latest witness - Tom Wilson - disputes that entirely.

So where did the fatal shot come from, Robert?
Do you even have a clue?

Remember you have to get all these shots in within your four to seven shot scenario:

1. First missed shot
2. Shot to JFK's back
3. Shot to JFK's neck
4. Shot to Connally
5. Shot to JFK's head from Sewer Drain
6. Shot to JFK's head (missed?) from Grassy Knoll
7. Shot to James Tague
8. Shot to windshield

Am I missing anything?
Please provide your scenario.

Hank
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Oh, but you are assuming there was only one fatal shot to the head from only one location. I am open to more than one shot from different locations.
 
LSSBB said:
I'm from South Bend mysellf and have a brother in Antwerp and another in Syracuse that bracket you. I live in the Chicago South Suburbs right up US 30 from ya, plus 2-3 hrs and lots of cornfields.
Click to expand...


Maybe it's my imagination, but there seems to be a disproportionately large number of members at BAUT and Apollohoax from Indiana, Ohio, and Chicagoland. May have something to do with all the early astronauts from Indiana and Ohio, plus Purdue's being the "astronaut school." I discovered this when some of us were kicking around the idea of a road trip to visit Ralph Rene (now deceased) in southern Indiana.
 
SpitfireIX said:
Maybe it's my imagination, but there seems to be a disproportionately large number of members at BAUT and Apollohoax from Indiana, Ohio, and Chicagoland. May have something to do with all the early astronauts from Indiana and Ohio, plus Purdue's being the "astronaut school." I discovered this when some of us were kicking around the idea of a road trip to visit Ralph Rene (now deceased) in southern Indiana.
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OT. IM or "get a room."
 
infocusinc said:
I know exactly what and who he is Robert. Please show us his skillset has any bearing the the validity of the backyard photos.

Wilson the crackpot tells us his "expert" analysis of the backyard photos show 9:12 am as a timestamp....

You do know that means back lighting don't you?

Sheesh Robert, any port in a storm for you when cornered.

BTW, you still have not given us the date and time for the BY photos? Or are you in the 9:12 AM timeslot too? LOL!

Tom Wilson on the badgeman, allegedly found in a ASA 3000 Polaroid image.

"I can zoom into his eye, and from the 3D image I could prescribe eyeglasses."

Can anyone here say "crackpot"
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Crackpot is just another one of your tiresome ad hominem attacks on people who have contrary opinions. Nor was Wilson mentioned as having anything to do with B/Y photos, but his computer imagery of morticians wax and paint on the fake autopsy photos.
 
Southwind17 said:
:rolleyes:
I don't think I've ever seen a better example of a so-called 'expert' jump to spurious conclusions from spurious analysis combined with an obvious bias towards a conclusion that he clearly favours emotionally. If it wasn't so sad to see somebody so obviously deluded it would be laughable. No wonder his efforts to convince the media and Government have been 'thwarted' at every turn. I wonder whether Wilson has ever really stopped and wondered why that is!
Click to expand...

When you have evidence that the criminal is in fact the government, what would you expect? Would you expect the government to indict itself?????
 
Southwind17 said:
:rolleyes:
I don't think I've ever seen a better example of a so-called 'expert' jump to spurious conclusions from spurious analysis combined with an obvious bias towards a conclusion that he clearly favours emotionally. If it wasn't so sad to see somebody so obviously deluded it would be laughable. No wonder his efforts to convince the media and Government have been 'thwarted' at every turn. I wonder whether Wilson has ever really stopped and wondered why that is!
Click to expand...

More Sour Grapes.

Tom Wilson, an expert on computer analysis with image processing on dynamic and static images, has qualified as an expert witness in U.S. federal court in relation to the analysis of entrance and exit wounds of deceased in fatality scene photographs. He is also listed as an expert witness with the Department of Justice.
 
HSienzant said:
I apologize for the delay in getting back to you on this.
The below is not a sworn statement as in a court of law, but nonetheless, Vincent Scalise did examine the first-generation images of the photographs of the rifle, and did conclude they were Oswald's prints, to the exclusion of all other fingerprints in the world. He did put that in writing. Vincent Scalise is a noted expert on fingerprints, and was a member of the HSCA's 1978 forensic panel.

As the book was headed to press, an independent examination of Rusty's trigger-housing photos was done for the television program FRONTLINE by Vincent J. Scalice, a Certified Latent Print Examiner. Scalice was the fingerprint expert used by the HSCA in 1978. He stated in a letter of conclusions to the author that "Based upon the results of this examination and comparison, it is logical to assume that ALL of these photographs, which exhibit varying degrees of contrast, were not available for detailed comparison purposes in 1963 or 1978." Scalice had not seen all of the photos possessed by Rusty before.

Instead of focusing on only the clearest photograph (detailed in this chapter as performed by Captain Powdrill), Scalice used different enhancement techniques with all of the photographs. He stated. "It was necessary to utilize all of the photographs in order to carry out this procedure as the photographs were taken at different exposures ranging from light to medium and dark. As a result of the varying degrees of contrast from photo to photo, it became possible to locate and identify a sufficient amount of identifying characteristics on which to base a positive identification. As a result of an exacting and detailed examination and comparison under varying degrees of magnification and illumination, I have reached the conclusion that the developed latent prints are the fingerprints of Lee Harvey Oswald's right middle finger (#3) and right ring finger (#4) as they appear on the inked fingerprint card [JFK Exhibit F-400 of the HSCA]."

A comparison was also done by Scalice of Rusty's fingerprint card to JFK Exhibit F-400. He determined that "the inkless prints taken by Rusty [and J. B. Hicks] were indeed those of Lee Harvey Oswald, as they compared favorably with the inked impressions taken on 8-9-63."

Although the trigger-housing fingerprints were "extremely faint and barely distinguishable" and "partially distorted," a positive identification of Lee Harvey Oswald was made by Scalice. This is perhaps the most important finding made since the time of the assassination. It may now be stated as fact that the fingerprints of Lee Harvey Oswald were left behind on the trigger housing of the rifle found on the sixth floor of the Book Depository.

http://www.jfk-online.com/prints.html

Note the footnote 11 quoted here:
11. "Initially, only Oswald's partial palm print was identified under the barrel of the rifle (10 points of identification are usually required for a positive ID). In 1992, I met with Rusty Livingston, a former Dallas policeman assigned to the crime lab at the time of the assassination. Livingston had saved high contrast photo prints of the rifle, taken before it was shipped to FBI headquarters in Washington. The photos contained evidence that had gone unnoticed, and when Frontline had them analyzed, Oswald's guilt seemed even more certain. Vincent Scalice, a renowned fingerprint expert and HSCA consultant, was engaged by Frontline and expressed astonishment at what he saw -- three fingers from Oswald's right hand had left their mark just inches from the trigger.

"Scalice, in fact, had located a whopping 18 points of identification. After the production aired, he continued his work and increased the total to 24 points. "If I had seen these four photographs in 1978," says Scalice, "I would have been able to make an identification at that point in time. After this reexamination, I definitely conclude these are Oswald's prints. There is no doubt about it." Other experts pointed out that the prints were "fresh" because they would not last long on a smooth, oily metal surface such as the trigger guard housing." (Gus Russo, Live by the Sword [Baltimore, Maryland: Bancroft Press, 1998] p. 462.)

HAnk
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"Latent fingerprint recovered from the trigger guard of a 6.5 millimeter, Mannlicher-Carcano rifle.... It is of no value for identificationpurposes."

HSCA Appendix to Hearings - Volume VIII

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol8/html/HSCA_Vol8_0126b.htm
 
Robert Prey said:
Crackpot is just another one of your tiresome ad hominem attacks on people who have contrary opinions. Nor was Wilson mentioned as having anything to do with B/Y photos, but his computer imagery of morticians wax and paint on the fake autopsy photos.
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Cat got your tongue again on the exact date and time of the backyard photos?

Sorry Robert. Wilson IS a crackpot. I've no problem with contrary opinion provided they are not based on crackpottery.

You on the other hand only seem to believe crackpots.

You are really funny when you are getting your butt kicked!
 
Robert Prey said:
More Sour Grapes.

Tom Wilson, an expert on computer analysis with image processing on dynamic and static images, has qualified as an expert witness in U.S. federal court in relation to the analysis of entrance and exit wounds of deceased in fatality scene photographs. He is also listed as an expert witness with the Department of Justice.
Click to expand...


Robert Groden was an expert witness in the OJ trial. He said the photos of hte shoes was a fake, and then he was shown to be a crackpot when many more images by other photographers showed the very same shoes.

You claim of Wilsons 'expert" status means diddly squat.


Either his work stands on its own merits or it does not. And you can't even begin to defend his work since you (or anyone else for that matter knows0 what he was doing.

Thus you bray..."But he's an EXPERT" ROFLMBO!
 
Robert Prey said:
Tom Wilson, an expert on computer analysis with image processing on dynamic and static images, has qualified as an expert witness in U.S. federal court in relation to the analysis of entrance and exit wounds of deceased in fatality scene photographs.
Click to expand...

Copypasted from http://jfklancer.com/dallas00/Dallas00spea.html . I asked you for case numbers in which he testified as an expert. Where are they?
 
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