Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[crimresearch]

So I see you've stopped arguing what "took" means. Smart move. That strategy was a loser.

However, this latest strategy you've adopted isn't much better.

Pro Tip: If you're going to argue that I made some kind of judgment regarding Zimmerman having a weapon on him, it might help if you quote me actually doing so, instead of bolding a statement I made where I don't even mention Zimmerman having a weapon on him:

Quote:
But it does give a very plausible basis for a scenario in which Zimmerman was the aggressor in the ensuing altercation since we know this whole situation began with him being the aggressor.
Yes, I view Zimmerman as the aggressor. But not so much because he was armed as opposed to the fact the he was actively pursuing Martin.

I sincerely hope this ends the silly game of "You Tell Me What I Really Meant".

The game is all yours. And I seriously doubt that you are getting paid to play it, or to give 'pro tips'.

Do you have anything either correct or useful about this issue? Or just more strawmen about people who are being objective?
Because the point that we won't know more until it goes to trial was made about 5,000 posts ago.

 

[johnny karate]

The game is all yours. And I seriously doubt that you are getting paid to play it, or to give 'pro tips'.

Do you have anything either correct or useful about this issue? Or just more strawmen about people who are being objective?
Because the point that we won't know more until it goes to trial was made about 5,000 posts ago.

Awesome. You're the one who jumped in to erroneously tell me what I meant by "took". I corrected you on that point. End of story.

 

[crimresearch]

Awesome. You're the one who jumped in to erroneously tell me what I meant by "took". I corrected you on that point. End of story.

More fallacies based on facts not in evidence. I've been in this thread since the beginning, I brought up points that you are now recycling, so there was no 'jumping in'.

And I pointed out what your use of the word in the context you used it, would mean in correct every day useage, in light of your overall comments.

At no point did I ever claim I was reading your mind.

If you are interested in a factual discussion, it would be nice to see you prove it by dropping the strawmen, and returning to the available facts.

 

[Dancing David]

Do not personalize your arguments, and remain civil and polite.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jhunter1163

Wow, two in one weeks time, not good.

 

[Dancing David]

See my previous post:
Explain how what Cutcher claims to have seen fits into Zimmerman's narrative.



Which is why I have never said "decided to take a gun to pursue him". Zimmerman took a gun. Zimmerman pursued Martin. Both actions were his decision.

Explain how her testimony is not going to get torn to shreds.

She is a terrible witness, she refused to be interviewed. They asked her three times. Then she only gave a written statement through her room mate. Then two days later she is running to the press talking about how the police refused to listen to her, accusations of witness tampering and so on and so on.

Just a gentle reminder , her statements to the press are not evidence. If she takes the stand it will not go well.

 

[crimresearch]

Explain how her testimony is not going to get torn to shreds.

She is a terrible witness, she refused to be interviewed. They asked her three times. Then she only gave a written statement through her room mate. Then two days later she is running to the press talking about how the police refused to listen to her, accusations of witness tampering and so on and so on.

Just a gentle reminder , her statements to the press are not evidence. If she takes the stand it will not go well.

Well, her claims are corroborated by Jesse Jackson... and who wouldn't believe a man of the cloth?

 

[triforcharity]

One thing bothers me about GZ's father's account of GZ's actions. He says that GZ got out of his truck to look at a street sign so he could tell the police where he was. From the map, there are only three street names in that neighborhood. If he lived there, and especially if he was on the neighborhood watch, he should know which street is which. He may not have known an exact address, but looking at a number on a house would tell him that. Regardless, the claim is he was looking for a street sign. Has anyone heard more about this?

Here's the other problem that I personally have.

What street sign was he going to look at? The two closest intersections don't appear to have street signs, but Google Earth doesn't have street view in the neighborhood. So, they could be missing from my view.

But I will agree, an excellent point.

 

[johnny karate]

Explain how her testimony is not going to get torn to shreds.

She is a terrible witness, she refused to be interviewed. They asked her three times. Then she only gave a written statement through her room mate. Then two days later she is running to the press talking about how the police refused to listen to her, accusations of witness tampering and so on and so on.

Just a gentle reminder , her statements to the press are not evidence. If she takes the stand it will not go well.

I've stated multiple times how I view witness testimony in this case. I don't see the point in running through it all again.

If you want to selectively believe or disbelieve any testimony it's entirely up to you.

But I am not particularly interested in baseless speculation about who is or isn't a credible witness. We all have our opinions. I'm more interested in the facts.

 

[triforcharity]

Explain how her testimony is not going to get torn to shreds.

She is a terrible witness, she refused to be interviewed. They asked her three times. Then she only gave a written statement through her room mate. Then two days later she is running to the press talking about how the police refused to listen to her, accusations of witness tampering and so on and so on.

Just a gentle reminder , her statements to the press are not evidence. If she takes the stand it will not go well.

Here's my problem.

How did she give a sworn statement THOUGH her roommate? I've never heard of this. That would be like me writing a report for someone else. It doesn't work. I cannot account for what another medic did or thought or saw or heard.

I'm not attacking you, but i've heard this before in the thread, and wondered how that worked. Did her roommate transcribe it? Translate? What?

I've never heard of such a thing.

Cheers!

~

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

The issue of him not knowing the street does not seem that unusual to me.

I recently moved out of a community I lived in for several years and in all honestly I could not tell you the name of a single street in it other than the one I lived on, not even those the next block over on either side of mine, nor the one to the rear, I never paid the slightest bit of attention. The reason being, I would come into my community, make a single right turn, and then a left turn on the street I lived on.

At my new home I could tell you the name of each street that gets me to my home after I leave the main street, 4 streets in all. However I could not tell you the name of a single one of the other ~10 streets I pass after I leave that main street as they have 0 relevance to me.

 

[Giz]

We all have our opinions. I'm more interested in the facts.

Too funny.

This thread is a monument to opinions poorly disguised as facts.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

Too funny.

This thread is a monument to opinions poorly disguised as facts.

True, but I've actually seen a lot of fascinating points and possible theories being made by people that are actually trying to think this think out. In fact, I think if I were in the media, or were the lawyers, I'd read every post in this thread from the beginning. It could help a reporter to come up with some good questions or interesting angles to pursue, and an attorney to come up with some good angles to argue.

 

[This is The End]

The issue of him not knowing the street does not seem that unusual to me.

I recently moved out of a community I lived in for several years and in all honestly I could not tell you the name of a single street in it other than the one I lived on, not even those the next block over on either side of mine, nor the one to the rear, I never paid the slightest bit of attention. The reason being, I would come into my community, make a single right turn, and then a left turn on the street I lived on.

At my new home I could tell you the name of each street that gets me to my home after I leave the main street, 4 streets in all. However I could not tell you the name of a single one of the other ~10 streets I pass after I leave that main street as they have 0 relevance to me.

I would guess you are in the minority on that.

I can probably name half the streets in my entire county! I'm probably in the minority on the other end of the equation.

If there were only 3 streets in the entire complex and Z was the captain of the neighborhood watch for that entire complex (for 2 years?), then Z not knowing the name of one of the 3 streets is highly suspicious.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

I would guess you are in the minority on that.

I can probably name half the streets in my entire county! I'm probably in the minority on the other end of the equation.

If there were only 3 streets in the entire complex and Z was the captain of the neighborhood watch for that entire complex (for 2 years?), then Z not knowing the name of one of the 3 streets is highly suspicious.

Haha, maybe I am . The funny thing is the closer I get to home, bascially meaning the minute I turn off the main street, the less I pay attention to the street names. Maybe GZ is the same . GPS has also ruined my need to remember streets. Just type the destination in and follow the instructions!

 

[Ian]

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet (since we're at over 5,000 posts now), but the events of this discussion have caused 20th Century Fox to backpedal their campaign for a comedy called Neighborhood Watch. It would probably have gotten to the cinemas just in time for school to let out for summer, but the New York Times reports that the plan has changed:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/09/m...comedy-called-neighborhood-watch.html?_r=1&hp

 

[Information Analyst]

Here's the other problem that I personally have.

What street sign was he going to look at? The two closest intersections don't appear to have street signs, but Google Earth doesn't have street view in the neighborhood. So, they could be missing from my view.

But I will agree, an excellent point.

It still seems rather surprising that Zimmerman doesn't appear to know where the three streets on the development begin and end enough to be able to say which one he's on.....

 

[Dancing David]

I've stated multiple times how I view witness testimony in this case. I don't see the point in running through it all again.

If you want to selectively believe or disbelieve any testimony it's entirely up to you.

But I am not particularly interested in baseless speculation about who is or isn't a credible witness. We all have our opinions. I'm more interested in the facts.

And the fact is that Ms. Crutchers statements to the press are not evidence nor are they testimony. Nor are the statements of GZ's father, Mr. Owen and a host of others.

There is no evidence and testimony at this point, except for what has been gathered by the sworn officers of the law. So if there is evidence that contradicts GZ's story it will be used by the SA in pressing charges or not.

 

[Dancing David]

Here's my problem.

How did she give a sworn statement THOUGH her roommate? I've never heard of this. That would be like me writing a report for someone else. It doesn't work. I cannot account for what another medic did or thought or saw or heard.

I'm not attacking you, but i've heard this before in the thread, and wondered how that worked. Did her roommate transcribe it? Translate? What?

I've never heard of such a thing.

Cheers!

~

I have to do a search of the thread, it was early on in the first week, she had gone to the press making all sorts of statements and there was a press statement alleged to have been regarding the interviews.

I will be going through the thread soon to find the original source.

 

[Dancing David]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...tin-witness-tv-report-20120315,0,559932.story

Police spokesman Sgt. Dave Morgenstern on Thursday issued a statement disputing Cutcher's version of events, calling her statements to WFTV "inconsistent with her sworn testimony to police."

"Actually officers who were canvassing the neighborhood looking for potential witnesses, the evening of the shooting, contacted her and she said she did not want to get involved," Morgenstern said.

Cutcher also appeared on CNN after her interview with the Orlando station.

"She did write a statement, for her roommate, and that was only after several attempts by officers who were asking for her information," Morgenstern said, adding that "the information she provided in her sworn statements… [was] consistent with the information Zimmerman provided."

 

[Dancing David]

Too funny.

This thread is a monument to opinions poorly disguised as facts.

An epic monument.