Merged Roosevelt's Rotten Record:Communism, Treachery, Betrayal

[Hans]

Do you are to prove it is not a myth?

What the heck does that mean?

Whatever you claim its a myth PROVE IT

 

[SpringHallConvert]

I already asked you to compare the Japanese to American battleline - you ran away

Listen troll - I know you tactics, you try to get everyone to do the research so you can reject it

Ain't workin on me troll

So troll either answer the questions or just shut up, okay?

lol

Nope. You're wrong about the battleships and Pearl Harbor.

Roosevelt lied, sailors died!

 

[Hans]

Nope. You're wrong about the battleships and Pearl Harbor.

Roosevelt lied, sailors died!

SHC running like hell now, run SHC run

We wait with baited breath your analysis of the Nippon vs yankee battleline

We also wait for your showing the 'truth' behind the battlefleet myth

 

[SpringHallConvert]

What the heck does that mean?

Whatever you claim its a myth PROVE IT

No, you prove it first.

You're the one who believes the attack at Pearl Harbor was a surprise.

Well, where's your proof?

 

[TJM]

Those battleships sunk at Pearl were largely obsolete and too slow for carrier operations, which is why they were sacrificed. They had to be replaced anyway, and new battleships were either being planned or built to do just that. Roosevelt had to have an excuse to get into that war, and he needed a few thousands corpses to do it.

Sorry, you're just wrong, as usual.

Which is why most of them were raised, repaired and sent into the fight. Yes, that that makes sense when you really want to get rid of your ships.

 

[Hans]

No, you prove it first.

You're the one who believes the attack at Pearl Harbor was a surprise.

Well, where's your proof?

SHC you are a troll who constantly asked for information - which you reject

You provide no information

I will not provide you information on your claims

Either provide the information or concede the points

 

[Hans]

Which is why most of them were raised, repaired and sent into the fight. Yes, that that makes sense when you really want to get rid of your ships.

Good point! But lost on SHC who is far to busy running away right now, lol

 

[TJM]

Good point! But lost on SHC who is far to busy running away right now, lol

Or furiously googling the battleships war records.

 

[Hans]

he'll find that the Japanese Battleship except for the newly launched Yamato were equal to the modernized US BB and the American ones were actually a bit newer than them.

He's also unable to determine that the BB admirals still had tight control of the US doctrine. At the Army navy football match that year a big banner was floated

I paraphrase

'No battleship under way has ever been sunk by an aircraft"

Which was true but the year prior to that it had said

'No battleship has ever been sunk by an aircraft' the Italian experience vs Swordsfish had made them change the banner.....

 

[SpringHallConvert]

Which is why most of them were raised, repaired and sent into the fight. Yes, that that makes sense when you really want to get rid of your ships.

We still needed some ships to fight the war with, of course, but we needed to get into that war a whole lot more. Those old battle wagons served their purpose as bait/cannon fodder on December 7, then they were raised to fight another day.

Too bad Roosevelt couldn't raise from the dead those 2,000 sailors he had murdered.

 

[SpringHallConvert]

SHC you are a troll who constantly asked for information - which you reject

You provide no information

I will not provide you information on your claims

Either provide the information or concede the points

You don't have any information. That's the whole problem. All you have is propaganda and opinions dressed up as "facts" when they are really not.

Now prove your conspiracy theory or concede the point, sweetie.

 

[SpringHallConvert]

he'll find that the Japanese Battleship except for the newly launched Yamato were equal to the modernized US BB and the American ones were actually a bit newer than them.

He's also unable to determine that the BB admirals still had tight control of the US doctrine. At the Army navy football match that year a big banner was floated

I paraphrase

'No battleship under way has ever been sunk by an aircraft"

Which was true but the year prior to that it had said

'No battleship has ever been sunk by an aircraft' the Italian experience vs Swordsfish had made them change the banner.....

All false. No proof. Just conjecture.

Rejected.

 

[TJM]

First we have:

Those battleships sunk at Pearl were largely obsolete and too slow for carrier operations, which is why they were sacrificed. They had to be replaced anyway, and new battleships were either being planned or built to do just that. Roosevelt had to have an excuse to get into that war, and he needed a few thousands corpses to do it.

Then after you're proven wrong yet again, we now have:

We still needed some ships to fight the war with, of course, but we needed to get into that war a whole lot more. Those old battle wagons served their purpose as bait/cannon fodder on December 7, then they were raised to fight another day.

What's wrong with admitting that you're wrong?

 

[Mudcat]

So SHc has gone from acusing Roosevelt of having advanced knowledge of Pearl Harbor attacks to outright murder? That's some outrageous accusations... that would need some evidence to back it up. I don't suppose you'll be presenting that any time soon SHC?

 

[SpringHallConvert]

What's wrong with admitting that you're wrong?

OK. You're right. I'll admit I was wrong.

I was wrong to believe you guys had any idea what you were talking about in this thread. You've proven me wrong by being completely clueless about our concentration camp president.

Happy now?

 

[SpringHallConvert]

So SHc has gone from acusing Roosevelt of having advanced knowledge of Pearl Harbor attacks to outright murder? That's some outrageous accusations... that would need some evidence to back it up. I don't suppose you'll be presenting that any time soon SHC?

Sure, just as soon as you prove that the attacks were a surprise to Roosevelt.

Good luck!

 

[TJM]

OK. You're right. I'll admit I was wrong.

I was wrong to believe you guys had any idea what you were talking about in this thread. You've proven me wrong by being completely clueless about our concentration camp president.

Happy now?

Empty rhetoric and won't admit it when you've tripped over your own BS. How unexpected.

 

[Mudcat]

Sure, just as soon as you prove that the attacks were a surprise to Roosevelt.

Good luck!

Um... no. In a court of law it is the prosecuter (that would be you, by the way) that has to provide evidence. All a defendant has to do is cast reasonable doubt on the evidence presented.

Present your evidence that Roosevelt had advanced knowledge of the attacks. Present your evidence that he did nothing to thwart the attacks. Present your evidence that he murdered anyone (you might want to look up what that word means by the way, because it doesn't mean what you think it means). And while you're at it provide your evidence that the interment camps were in fact concentration camps (and you might want to look up the definitions for those two terms as well, because they are mutually exclusive).

Well? What are you waiting for? Get to it!

 

[Corsair 115]

If you were a Japanese person do you think you could still defend using the bomb?

I'll repeat: anger at the U.S. for dropping the bombs is misdirected. Instead, the anger should be directed against the Japanese government which stubbornly insisted on continuing a war it had clearly lost many months earlier. Hundreds of thousands of Japanese and non-Japanese lives could have been saved by the simple act of the Japanese government recognizing its hopeless position and surrendering early in 1945 rather than continue to futilely fight the war.

The same criticism, incidentally, applies to the German government. After its defeat in the Battle of the Bulge there could be no doubt any longer that Germany was finished. It was only a matter of time. Yet its leadership exhibited the same futile stubbornness and fought on for months afterwards, consigning a great many of its own citizens to needless deaths.

Dresden, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki are actually the responsibility of the deluded governments of Germany and Japan and their decision to continue to fight when it was abundantly clear to anyone with even half a brain that they had long ago lost the war.

 

[Corsair 115]

We had one Yamato, interestingly none of the other Japanese battleships were commissioned after that date (1925) - but modernized - the Oklahoma and such would have been quite capable of taking on the Kongo, Fuso, Ise and perhaps the two Nagato classes.

The Nevada, Pennsylvania, and New Mexico classes had all been reconstructed in the 1930s to modernize them. These modernizations included new boilers, improved internal and external torpedo protection, additional deck armour, changes to the secondary armament, addition of heavier anti-aircraft batteries, new weapons fire control installed, and the superstructures greatly modified.

It was quite obviously correct, as the ships sunk or damaged at Pearl Harbor, no matter how you gauge their operational capabilities, did not constitute the entirety of the U.S. Pacific Fleet. The heart of the fleet was the handful of fleet carriers, which were all conveniently out to sea on December 7, 1941.

The Saratoga had just entered San Diego after having been drydocked at Bremerton. The Lexington was en route to Midway to deliver fighter aircraft to the island. The Enterprise had delivered fighters to Wake Island and had been expected back in Pearl on Saturday. As it was it several of its dive bombers arrived over the harbor during the battle.

Battleships were only considered the backbone of the fleet by some, and they were quickly proven wrong. Forward-thinking naval experts knew that carriers had replaced the battleship as the fleet operations gold standard, especially after the Battle of Taranto and the sinking of the Bismarck.

Even the Japanese didn't think of the aircraft carrier as the principle weapon of naval war. If they had, they never would have devoted the enormous resources they did to building the four ships of the Yamato class (two of which were finished as battleships; one was converted to an aircraft carrier during the war, and the fourth was cancelled in 1942 when 30% complete).

Those battleships sunk at Pearl were largely obsolete and too slow for carrier operations, which is why they were sacrificed. They had to be replaced anyway, and new battleships were either being planned or built to do just that.

And yet it was the "largely obsolote" battleships which fought in the Battle of Suriago Strait in October 1944 (part of the Battle of Leyte Gulf). These battleships—including the Pearl Harbor veterans Maryland, West Virginia, California, Tennesse, and Pennsylvania—fought a night surface engagement against Japanese battleships. Which the U.S. decisively won.