Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[Skeptic Ginger]

Just to be clear, the police did not tell Zimmerman not to follow Martin.....

Yawn....

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

There is every reason to question their motives, in the same way that there is a reason to question the motives of psychics who insert themselves into media cases seeking attention. This case represents the perfect opportunity for voice identification experts who want attention.

No one said they had no motive to take the assignment. I said they had no investment in the outcome. Any outcome would be equally news worthy including "you can't say". The firm has every reason to come out with the same outcome the police investigators are likely to come out with.

...I know that 90% of these so-called "engineers" are nothing but flim flam men who believe they have special hearing powers, don't understand the placebo effect, and believe Monster Cable (or similar) sounds better. Have 10 of them test the same thing and you'll get 10 different opinions.

So you took zero time to look at the actual company that did the analysis.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Try what again?

Is a 911 operator a police officer?

In some communities, yes.

 

[Dancing David]

The Tribune asked two different experts using two different methods. They are experts in the field and have been qualified to testify at trials. I think that's pretty strong evidence that it isn't Zimmerman screaming. You can keep an open mind, but not so open your brain falls out.

This is the nail in the coffin. Listen to that tape again. If it wasn't Zimmerman, then Trayvon is the one screaming in terror. And Zimmerman lied about it. If Trayvon is screaming for help like this, that makes Zimmerman a monster. Not a manslaughter case, but a murder case.

And what sampling have they done on regular voice vs. screaming to make the comparison?

 

[Dancing David]

Uh, yeah... sounds like woo to me. I'm sure it's as reliable as polygraphs.

Actually it does have some accuracy over polygraphs, but I want to know if they have cross sampled normal vs. yelling.

 

[Dancing David]

The incident report doesn't seem like evidence to me without some kind of real visual evidence, like photos, or testimony from someone outside the police department, like the EMS people.

And that is all awaiting the next step, isn't it

Right now, one possible hypothesis (which is most likely wrong, but it is still viable) is that we have a bunch of cops trying to protect the son of a retired judge. Given that this is at least not out of the realm of reason, I would hope that the police would have aimed for a bit more transparency, and would have at least leaked some evidence that their own claims were true when they leaked their report. They chose not to.

Just fro clarification, Florida has an open records act and that is what was used.

It is also why the new SA has quashed all further requests.

Maybe there was ill intent here, maybe there wasn't, and maybe they did their jobs exactly correctly. But they sure haven't done any kind of job of making their behavior transparent to the public.


This whole thing smells like week old fish.

You do know the lead investigator's recommendation, right?

 

[Dancing David]

It would be great to do a double blind test of the technology.

Exactly, especially with normal vs. screaming samples.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I thought a post pages ago said the 13 year old kid admitted to lying? The parents said the kid made up details or was pressured or something...

I believe that is the latest spin. Honestly, I don't know what to make of the kid. It seems utterly plausible the parents are scared to death and have just tried to remove their child from the controversy. I have much empathy for that view.
Or the kid could have decided he was mistaken. But that decision would came after being 'told' by the media about what 'actually' happened ... and I consider that very suspect.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Yeah, but it was a very serious sounding suggestion to not follow. To which Z said "Okay".

By which GZ could have meant:

OK, I will do what you said.
OK, I hear what you said.
OK, but I will do what I want.

At least, that's what my kids mean when I tell them something and they say OK

 

[Dancing David]

Funny how the CIA managed to ID those bin Laden tapes all those years. Total woo, I guess?

And what kind of voice was he using normal speaking or screaming?

Was it recorded from a cel phone at distance and then compressed for a dispatcher data base?

 

[Dancing David]

qft- there was no reason Martin should have been confronted in the first place

Yes, but the law may decide other wise. Was what GZ did illegal will be a huge point of contention and part of the jury instructions.

 

[Dancing David]

Also, imagine that you are part of a neighborhood watch and that there have been break-ins in your neighborhood. It might make it all the more reasonable that you would keep an eye on the person.

Nope, it is not , in fact part of the training that GZ did not have, because he was NOT a member of a neighborhood watch is this:

You call the cops and stay the heck out of it.

 

[Dancing David]

Why not follow and kill any random stranger then? You never know, they might be a criminal. This is how we get Somalia.

If you think it's ok to walk around shooting random strangers on the off chamce they might be criminals, I can only be glad we aren't neighbors.

It's not fuzzy reasoning at all to say if he didn't follow him he wouldn't be dead, it's simple cause and effect: if anyone is engaging in fuzzinees it is you.

This will be a huge issue at the trial, when and if it occurs.

 

[triforcharity]

Uh, yeah... sounds like woo to me. I'm sure it's as reliable as polygraphs.

Actually, polygraphs are not admissible in courts, unless both sides stipulate to their use.

These are admissible at any time. Did you read the article?

 

[Dancing David]

Bull. You are pulling this out of your confirmation bias rear. Some dispatch centers use very high tech equipment and any center that has been modernized uses digital recording. And, 911 calls are frequently used in court so there is a value in having quality recording equipment.

Not really, it depends on the digital storage medium, a lot of it depends on the phone used as well. Cell phones often compress the signal as well.

The issue with compression is that it removes a significant amount of the signal to encode the data, especially for cel phone transmission, or even cord free phones.

The signal analysis will probably be another long two days in court. It really depends upon the equipment used.

 

[triforcharity]

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be a dick. I had only seen media reports of the leaked police report. Since you seem to have been following this pretty closely, I thought that my information might have been outdated, and you had seen an official police report.

Nothing more sinister than that.

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin Lakes Shooting Initial Report.pdf

From the Sanfordfl.gov official site.

 

[triforcharity]

Yeah, a private company with goods to sell has absoutely no interest in getting their names in every major news media in the country.

And as SG stated, either way, the results would make headlines.

 

[WildCat]

Funny how the CIA managed to ID those bin Laden tapes all those years. Total woo, I guess?

There was a much larger data base, and of much higher quality. Not a 2 second scream over a telephone mic from a distance through a wall.

 

[triforcharity]

Hmmm, I wonder if I should admit to being both a woman and a redhead? Is that dangerous?

Define dangerous.....

 

[A'isha]

And what sampling have they done on regular voice vs. screaming to make the comparison?

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...easonable-scientific-certainty?pagewanted=all

Another benefit of modern biometric analysis, Owen said, is it doesn't require an "in context" comparison. In other words, Owen didn't need a sample of Zimmerman screaming in order to compare his voice to the call.