Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[crimresearch]

Well that sounds like an insanity-defense. I don't know what will come out if this goes to a trial (disgusting that we have to say "if"), but if Zimmerman may have believed he was in imminent danger due to a racist attitude or drunken state of mind...I don't see how that can justify his behavior when a reasonable person would probably never have believed it and never have taken a gun and chased the boy down. Unless this is the same as claiming you're not guilty by reason of insanity. And if it isn't, it would seem quite clear that if you admit to killing someone, as the affirmative defense states, you would have to prove that those circumstances occurred, which makes perfect sense since otherwise it basically legalizes murder as long as there are no witnesses. Grand Theft Auto 4 is a good video game, but I don't think its punishment system applies in real-life.

Furthermore, what about the issue of Trayvon's perspective? Isn't Trayvon justified in attacking a man who was obstructing his path, wouldn't leave him alone, then left his car, revealing that he had a GUN in a visible holster, and started chasing him down on foot? No matter what Zimmerman may be able to prove about Trayvon attacking him, it may be that Trayvon SHOULD have attacked him under the law.

This may be Amanda Knox II.

I suspect that Nancy Grace is salivating over it even as we speak.

Both the shooter's and the victim's behaviors will certainly be portrayed by one side as contributory, and the other as reasonable.

This isn't an insanity defense because Zimmerman's claims of reasonable belief are based on things that apparently did happen.
In what fashion they happened we don't know, but he isn't claiming that he had to shoot the victim because he was a vampire.

I will repeat something I said a while back... in the 4 or so previous incidents where Zimmerman has been involved in allegations of violence, his version of the story has matched the textbook appropriate defense every time.

Which is what we could also expect from an innocent person.

How many coincidences do we believe though?

 

[triforcharity]

Unfortunately, I have a feeling that's how the trial is going to go, unless the police can find more to break down Zimmerman's story. As much as I think he should be held accountable for Martin's death, there may not be enough to get above the "beyond a reasonable doubt" level. I can see him being found guilty in a civil suit, but I'm not sure about a criminal case.

I do too. If that be the case, and Sanford PD bungled the investigation, violating Florida laws, people need to be held accountable.

If SPD didn't do certain things, that should have been done, then the FDLE will find it. Heads will roll. FDLE doesn't take that kinda **** lightly.

But yes, that is my fear also....

 

[Policenaut]

How do you figure?

Just off the top of my head two rather large cases are the 92 LA riots and the more recent riots in Oakland after the Bart cop was acquitted. The media played a large part in both of these extremely racially charged incidents imo.

 

[crimresearch]

Well from what I've read, Florida doesn't issue permits to alcoholics, drug-addicts, and "mental incompetents" and Zimmerman was on record as violently resisting a police officer, being accused of domestic violence, and being ordered to undergo alcohol education, as well as having possessed an empty marijuana bag at one point in his past...so I assumed that there was no way he would be able to have a concealed weapon. It would be sad if I was wrong.

Errrr...

 

[WildCat]

Personally, I find Zimmerman's account difficult to believe because it doesn't make sense to me that Martin would get into a shouting match with Zimmerman, but not a fist fight, then as Z was heading back to his truck, go jump on him then. And Z's injuries indicate a face-to-face confrontation.

Where are you getting this information? At no point did Zimmerman claim he got into a "shouting match" with Martin, and then decided to head back to his truck.

 

[WildCat]

It's unbelievable how much falsehoods are being repeated in this thread, especially by ones who just popped in throwing around their ill-informed assertions while at the same admitting not reading any of the thread. I swear everything is getting repeated every 3 to 5 pages.

Yeah, lots of people jumping in who don't appear to know much of anything about the known facts of the case.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

Where are you getting this information? At no point did Zimmerman claim he got into a "shouting match" with Martin, and then decided to head back to his truck.

I think the confusion stems from some media reports stating that GZ claimed he was "attacked from behind". Looks like this was the usual misreporting, but it hasn't filtered through to everyone yet. If that had been the case, the exchanged words would have had to have come before he turned around to head back to his truck. Hence the confusion. Just teaches you not to rely on what the media reports as the truth...

 

[triforcharity]

Question: are there any released photos of Zimmerman that were taken after his arrest?

Not that I am aware of. I think, because at this time he is not charged with a crime, any photos still fall under Florida evidence rules, and the SPD has a right to refuse their release.

 

[triforcharity]

As far as I know, no. However, they will probably emerge. Zimmerman's lawyer said he suffered a broken nose and a cut to the back of his head. Didn't he also say he didn't seek medical attention until the next day (after realizing he's screwed)? That crap doesn't even fly on Judge Judy.

Yes. The lawyer also claimed that Zimmerman asked to be taken to the ER, but wasn't allowed. He was initially treated at the scene, and refused transport to the local ER. He would have been required to sign a patient refusal form stating that the advice of the paramedics was understood, and refused treatment.

I have been since about page 10 or so, that I didn't believe it either.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

You mean the witness who admits she didn't actually see it and told reporters a different story than she told the police? That witness?

Yes, Mary Cutcher. She is 911 call number 6 on the City of sanford site.

MC: "it's a black guy."
Dispatcher: "What do you mean, it's a black guy? that got shot?"
MC: "I don't know"
...
MC: Theres a black guy standing up over him.

yes, that witness

 

[WildCat]

What unarmed person would attack someone they saw had a gun?

Claus Larsen?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Well from what I've read, Florida doesn't issue permits to alcoholics, drug-addicts, and "mental incompetents" and Zimmerman was on record as violently resisting a police officer, being accused of domestic violence, and being ordered to undergo alcohol education, as well as having possessed an empty marijuana bag at one point in his past...so I assumed that there was no way he would be able to have a concealed weapon. It would be sad if I was wrong.

Isn't there enough of this in the thread already ?

 

[sgtbaker]

I must have missed some reports. What backs up that assumption? M closed the gap on Z??



I think the biggest piece of evidence, that Z possibly did more than just follow, was that Z was close enough to M for M to ask Z what he wanted!

That is not how close you follow someone if you are just keeping an eye on them.

LTC8K6 says above there is some evidence that they were so close because M closed the gap on Z. I would really like to see that.

This is where I keep seeing the disconnect. Martin closing the gap between himself and Zimmerman, by definition, is not an assumption. That is an active player's (GZ) account. You are free to say you doubt it and you are free to say that one is acting on the assumption that GZ is telling the truth, but that aspect of the story is not an assumption.

Then, in the next paragraph, you call the fact that they are close enough to verbally communicate, evidence that Zimmerman chased down Martin. That is an assumption since there is not a single player or witness to that detail. How is the fact that they are close enough to verbally communicate evidence of one person's act and not the other?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

A broken nose was not in the police report.

Have you seen the official police report ?

 

[EGarrett]

A broken nose was not in the police report.

...and apparently Zimmerman didn't go to the doctor until the next day. I wonder if anyone in the thread has had their nose broken and whether they would've been able to sleep without medical attention when it happened?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

It's unbelievable how much falsehoods are being repeated in this thread, especially by ones who just popped in throwing around their ill-informed assertions while at the same admitting not reading any of the thread. I swear everything is getting repeated every 3 to 5 pages.

Yeah, lots of people jumping in who don't appear to know much of anything about the known facts of the case.

Thirded

 

[sgtbaker]

Yes. The lawyer also claimed that Zimmerman asked to be taken to the ER, but wasn't allowed. He was initially treated at the scene, and refused transport to the local ER. He would have been required to sign a patient refusal form stating that the advice of the paramedics was understood, and refused treatment.

I have been since about page 10 or so, that I didn't believe it either.

I don't know what is up with Zimmerman's lawyer. He has made quite a few statements about what went down that night, the condition of his client the night of the incident, and what was on the police report. Then, in an interview that I read, yesterday, he admits to not reading the police report, listening to the 911 tapes, or speaking to Zimmerman about the incident. WTH?

 

[Professor Yaffle]

...and apparently Zimmerman didn't go to the doctor until the next day. I wonder if anyone in the thread has had their nose broken and whether they would've been able to sleep without medical attention when it happened?

I know someone who broke their nose, thought it was just badly bruised and took painkillers for 2 days before seeing a doctor.

 

[triforcharity]

Hey! I'm only 47.

Wait, you're a woman? Holy Flying Spaghetti Monster!! I think we need to implement blue and pick colors on poster names. I've always thought you were a man.

Huh. But, if your avatar over there is of you, I would suspect you, yes.

 

[sgtbaker]

...and apparently Zimmerman didn't go to the doctor until the next day. I wonder if anyone in the thread has had their nose broken and whether they would've been able to sleep without medical attention when it happened?

A broken nose is actually a rather vague term. It can mean anything between a fracture to a displacement.