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The death throes of a conspiracy theory.

SpringHallConvert said:
Why are you so reluctant to summarize YOUR OWN LINKS? Why are you so reluctant to HIGHLIGHT THE RELEVANT INFORMATION? Is it because you yourself are lazy? Is it because you yourself haven't read your own links and are just bluffing? Is it because you assume they support your position when you have no idea whether they do or not?

Come on, don't be like all these other government truthers who couldn't debate their way out of a Roosevelt concentration camp. Put something together. Prove your conspiracy theory.
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A. If I summarize, you will attempt to poke holes in the summaries. So why should I? I worked hard to get the entire 40 volumes online so people could read the information themselves, not have me spoon feed it to them.

B. I don't jump through hoops for you.
 
Gawdzilla said:
A. If I summarize, you will attempt to poke holes in the summaries. So why should I? I worked hard to get the entire 40 volumes online so people could read the information themselves, not have me spoon feed it to them.
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This is an unbelievable response. Really. You're afraid that I am not just going to raise a white flag and give up? You're afraid that I am might debate your interpretation of the links? Wow.

B. I don't jump through hoops for you.
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But you want me to jump through your hoops by reading links when I have no guarantee you've even read them yourself?
 
Gawdzilla said:
Why?
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Because the U.S. government needed a shocking, Pearl Harbor-type event to rouse the inward-looking, war-weary American people into supporting another large, foreign intervention. None of the other Japanese moves had the same galvanizing power of a Pearl Harbor surprise attack.
 
Gawdzilla said:
I want you to do your own research. If you can't do that, you'll find me in the don't-care category.
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I feel the same way about you. I want you to do your own research. I want you to read your own links and prove that you've read them by summarizing them for me and highlighting the most relevant pieces of evidence. Until you do that, I will assume you are bluffing.

Any Joe Schmoe can say, "I'm an expert, here, read this, this, this, and this!". But not any Joe Schmoe can rationally explain his position point by painstaking point. When you're done reading your links, let me know what you've found.
 
SpringHallConvert said:
Because the U.S. government needed a shocking, Pearl Harbor-type event to rouse the inward-looking, war-weary American people into supporting another large, foreign intervention. None of the other Japanese moves had the same galvanizing power of a Pearl Harbor surprise attack.
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Go to the library. Read the Gallup Polls. (If anybody else asks for a link to the Gallup Polls for the appropriate years, I'd be happy to provide it.) Then read the newspapers, editiorials and letters to the editor, and the news articles. Then read the Congressional Record. This will prove you are wrong and I am right. Have fun.
 
SpringHallConvert said:
I feel the same way about you. I want you to do your own research. I want you to read your own links and prove that you've read them by summarizing them for me and highlighting the most relevant pieces of evidence. Until you do that, I will assume you are bluffing.

Any Joe Schmoe can say, "I'm an expert, here, read this, this, this, and this!". But not any Joe Schmoe can rationally explain his position point by painstaking point. When you're done reading your links, let me know what you've found.
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I read the Hearings in 1965-1969. My own set. I've read well over 250 books on Pearl Harbor since then. The National Archives site my work. I'm good with my knowledge, and I've met lots of people with your level of knowledge.
 
Gawdzilla said:
Go to the library. Read the Gallup Polls. (If anybody else asks for a link to the Gallup Polls for the appropriate years, I'd be happy to provide it.) Then read the newspapers, editiorials and letters to the editor, and the news articles. Then read the Congressional Record. This will prove you are wrong and I am right. Have fun.
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So, what you're saying here is, there was a concerted effort in the corporate-owned media to whip the American people into supporting a war effort with various types of propaganda? And this is supposed to prove what? That the American people wanted send their sons off to die in another foreign war?

Show it to me. Link this support to me. Let me look at it. What are you afraid of?
 
Gawdzilla said:
I read the Hearings in 1965-1969. My own set. I've read well over 250 books on Pearl Harbor since then. The National Archives site my work. I'm good with my knowledge, and I've met lots of people with your level of knowledge.
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Right, and I'm the Pope. No, really. I am, because I say so. That's good enough, right? You don't actually need me to prove it, right?

You're ducking me, dude.
 
Gawdzilla said:
Do the reading, then come back. Until then I'll leave you with your amateur status.
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I think you are bluffing here, if not outright being dishonest.

If you were as knowledgeable as you claim to be, you could easily ad-lib an argument without needing to tell your opponent to go read a bunch of links. You're one of those "internet experts" who has bookmarked a couple of hundred web pages and instead of debating people, you just whip out one of your links and tell them to go pound sand. If they don't do what you command, you feign indignation and announce that you are leaving.

Dude, you're ducking me. Stay in the thread and argue what you know, even if it's not very much. Quit relying on links to do your arguing for you.
 
SpringHallConvert said:
Quit relying on links to do your arguing for you.
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You pled ignorance of the basic facts and asked for help. You are clearly and admittedly the one disprovisioned of knowledge on this topic, so you are in the least tenable position to charge someone else with dereliction. If you don't like the information that has been spoon-fed to you at your request, then get thee to a library. Or drop the question. Either way, quit whining.
 
Gawdzilla said:
That would require that I respect you enough to make the effort.
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That's fine. You made some indication last night that you were either done with me or leaving the thread, neither of which has proven to be the case. So stay in the thread and represent the peanut gallery. Maybe somebody else will come in and replace you.

I want to see how you guys are able to prove this "no advance knowledge" conspiracy theory of yours.
 
SHC is far too lazy and intellectually dishonest to actually read anything that might challenge his religious beliefs. He tried to get me to spoon feed him information out of The Looming Tower so he doesn't have to read it himself. Yeah right. As if I care about educating some troll enough to do that. Especially since it is quite clear that he will just handwave away anything because maybe the evil Jews faked it.
 
JayUtah said:
You pled ignorance of the basic facts and asked for help. You are clearly and admittedly the one disprovisioned of knowledge on this topic, so you are in the least tenable position to charge someone else with dereliction. If you don't like the information that has been spoon-fed to you at your request, then get thee to a library. Or drop the question. Either way, quit whining.
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Dropping links and running isn't debating, it's ducking. Don't just drop a link or tell me to go to the library, make an argument and explain whatever it is you intend to use to support that argument.

I believe the truth here is, you guys can't and won't make an argument because deep down you know the evidence you have to rely upon is inconclusive. Like I said, you're speculating just like anybody else is.
 
The Dark Lord said:
SHC is far too lazy and intellectually dishonest to actually read anything that might challenge his religious beliefs. He tried to get me to spoon feed him information out of The Looming Tower so he doesn't have to read it himself. Yeah right. As if I care about educating some troll enough to do that. Especially since it is quite clear that he will just handwave away anything because maybe the evil Jews faked it.
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When I was fourteen a trusted neighbor told me he needed my help. He gave me the Hearings, forty big fat books, and asked me to find out how FDR "did it". I reported back just before I left for boot camp to advise him that there was no smoking gun. However, by then I was thoroughly hooked on History. When the internet came along I decide to share what I had found over the years. With Patrick Clancey I developed some serious collections of information on WWII, 100+ gig of documents. And I still haven't found a smoking gun. If SHC put in the same effort ... Nah, that's not going to happen.
 
SpringHallConvert said:
Dropping links and running isn't debating, it's ducking.
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You asked for information. You prejudicially rejected what was provided. Therefore I have zero sympathy for you. If you want to be well-informed, take the responsibility yourself.

I believe the truth here is, you guys can't and won't make an argument because deep down you know the evidence you have to rely upon is inconclusive. Like I said, you're speculating just like anybody else is.
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Putting words in your critics' mouths isn't debating. It's ducking.
 
The Dark Lord said:
SHC is far too lazy and intellectually dishonest to actually read anything that might challenge his religious beliefs. He tried to get me to spoon feed him information out of The Looming Tower so he doesn't have to read it himself. Yeah right. As if I care about educating some troll enough to do that. Especially since it is quite clear that he will just handwave away anything because maybe the evil Jews faked it.
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Dark Lord: If you want to know all the details of the 9/11 attacks, read The Looming Tower! The book's author won a Pulitzer!

SpringHall: Can you summarize the book? Does the book have any special evidence you'd like to cite here?

Dark Lord: Just read it! The guy who wrote it won a Pulitzer!

SpringHall: I know. You already said that. But this isn't a book club. We're discussing 9/11. What from that book can you bring to our discussion right here and right now regarding 9/11?

Dark Lord: I'm not going to, uh, get into that. Uh, just read it.

SpringHall: Can't you at the very least describe the evidence in the book? Can't you at the very least maybe quote a certain passage from the book that you feel is relevant to our discussion?

Dark Lord: It won a Pulitzer!

SpringHall: Uh, yes, but what about the evidence in the book? You said you read it, right? Can you share something you learned from that book with us in this thread?

Dark Lord: Jews! Jews! Jews! Evil Jews! You think the Jews did it!

SpringHall: Wait, wait, we were trying to talk about this book. Relax. Tell me about the book. Share with me some of what you learned from this book.

Dark Lord: Jews! Jews! Jews! I'll bet you think they control the Pulitzer Prize! Jews! Jews! Jews! The author of the book won a Pulitzer!

SpringHall: OK, calm down. Take a deep breath. Please just share with me something from this book you read.

Dark Lord: JJJJJJJJEEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWZZZZZZZZZZ!
 
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