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The death throes of a conspiracy theory.

Gawdzilla Sama

121.92-meter mutant fire-breathing lizard-thingy
Gawdzilla Sama
Joined
Nov 25, 2009
Messages
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Location
Northern St. Louis County, Missouri.
I am finding it harder and harder to get a real challenge from the Pearl Harbor Conspiracy Theorists. Some of this may be due to fatigue, some to bright shiny new conspiracies available, and some due to the fact that they just can't come up with a slightly plausible idea anymore.
 
The Pearl Harbor conspiracy theorists are probably the best illustration of conspiracy theorists hearing/reading what they want to hear/read. When they read a statement like, "Though the USA may have been aware that an attack from the Japanese was likely, they were unaware of where or when such an attack may have occurred", they think it actually says, "The USA knew the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor on 7 December 1941 and did nothing about it so they would have an excuse to enter the war."
 
SpitfireIX said:
All of the above. About the only people who still try to argue this one are the Hitler huggers.
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Or a few on the fringe right with a psychotic hatred of FDR and "Progressives". I think that for while Glen Beck was pushing this nonsense.
 
It doesn't even make any sense. If they knew Pearl Harbor was going to happen, they would have mounted a counter attack. America would have still got in the war and six Japanese aircraft carriers might have been sunk.
 
The Dark Lord said:
It doesn't even make any sense. If they knew Pearl Harbor was going to happen, they would have mounted a counter attack. America would have still got in the war and six Japanese aircraft carriers might have been sunk.
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The Japanese were projecting 30 - 50% losses in their own ships. They expected the remaining naval units to come pooring out of Pearl hell bent on revenge
 
Gawdzilla said:
I am finding it harder and harder to get a real challenge from the Pearl Harbor Conspiracy Theorists. Some of this may be due to fatigue, some to bright shiny new conspiracies available, and some due to the fact that they just can't come up with a slightly plausible idea anymore.
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Fads come and go - the only reason there was a resurgence in the Pearl conspiracy was this insane linking to 9/11. If the Titanic is any thing to go by, the Pearl Harbor conspiracy has a lot of good years in it - you just have to wait for another trigger
 
The only reason it gets mentioned at all is that conspiracy kooks just love the phrase 'false flag'.

My favorite is one list which claimed to be all the 'false flag' war starters. The list was missing all the actual false flags, such as the event that started the German-Poland part of the war.
 
The Dark Lord said:
It doesn't even make any sense. If they knew Pearl Harbor was going to happen, they would have mounted a counter attack. America would have still got in the war and six Japanese aircraft carriers might have been sunk.
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When CTs address this issue, which they generally don't, their lame response is that just getting the US in the war wasn't good enough; it had to be a brutal defeat to get the American people fired up. :rolleyes:

On a side note, it's very unlikely that the US would have been able to bag all six Japanese carriers, because of the lack of effective US submarines, the lack of effective anti-ship aircraft at Pearl Harbor, and the fact that the US only had three carriers available, one of which was just completing overhaul on the West Coast.

What the US could have done, however, was drastically reduced the damage to the ships, aircraft, and installations at Pearl Harbor, and shot down many more Japanese planes. The loss of a large number of highly trained Japanese naval aviators so early in the war would undoubtedly have significantly affected Japanese operations during the first half of 1942.
 
dudalb said:
Or a few on the fringe right with a psychotic hatred of FDR and "Progressives". I think that for while Glen Beck was pushing this nonsense.
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Yes, because, as we all know, it's "psychotic" to hate a man who oversaw the construction and operation of concentration camps in America, which were used to cage thousands of innocent people - including completely defenseless women and children - against their will. Such men should be celebrated and revered!
 
Gawdzilla said:
I am finding it harder and harder to get a real challenge from the Pearl Harbor Conspiracy Theorists. Some of this may be due to fatigue, some to bright shiny new conspiracies available, and some due to the fact that they just can't come up with a slightly plausible idea anymore.
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Why? Where's your proof that the Pearl Harbor attack was truly a surprise to our government? Has all the government documentation pertaining to the Pearl Harbor incident been declassified yet? If not, why?
 
SpringHallConvert said:
Why? Where's your proof that the Pearl Harbor attack was truly a surprise to our government?
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You could do a little work and find out, you know. Here's a helpful start:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/local_links.php?catid=17

Has all the government documentation pertaining to the Pearl Harbor incident been declassified yet?
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You have something in particular in mind?

If not, why?
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Are you aware of how things from that era get declassified?
 
kookbreaker said:
You could do a little work and find out, you know. Here's a helpful start.
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Do you have anything more specific than a link to a bunch of other links, which probably lead to even more links?

What possible proof do you have that our government was taken completely by surprise by the attack at Pearl Harbor? Or are you just speculating?
 
SpringHallConvert said:
Do you have anything more specific than a link to a bunch of other links, which probably lead to even more links?

What possible proof do you have that our government was taken completely by surprise by the attack at Pearl Harbor? Or are you just speculating?
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:deadhorse
 
Stop pretending that there is any evidence that will convince you. We all know that no matter what, you reserve the right to say that the Jews just faked it.

And really, this is just another pathetic attempt at reversing the burden of proof. 100% of the existing evidence points to it being a surprise. If your religion dictates otherwise, tough ****. Nobody sane is going to believe you unless you can prove it.
 
MG1962 said:
The Japanese were projecting 30 - 50% losses in their own ships. They expected the remaining naval units to come pooring out of Pearl hell bent on revenge
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The first war gaming of the attack posited an alerted Hawaii. The Japanese lost two aircraft carriers, a lot of planes, (plus, IIRC, a cruiser) and did minimal damage. They played it out a couple more times and did better when the US forces were not alert.
 
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