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Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

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RandFan said:
Is there any testimony by Zimmerman that gives his reasons for being suspicious of Martin? The call to police doesn't seem to provide any compelling reasons.
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If, and I stress if the girlfriend's statement is accurate: Zimmerman, is driving and sees a kid walking slowly in the rain. He watches him for a second to see why he is wandering around in the rain. Martin says to his girlfriend, there's this guy watching me and he pulls his hood over his head. Given the neighborhood has had a series of recent robberies committed by young black males (according to Zimmerman's neighbor), Zimmerman may have seen a kid notice he is being watched and pulls his hoodie up. Zimmerman may have thought he was hiding his identity. Just a possibility based on what has been added to the story since the beginning.
 
RandFan said:
Thanks. To answer your question, I don't know if any evidence impeaches Zimmerman's testimony.
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I would hazard a guess that Zimmerman's testimony will be carefully monitored by his attorney to avoid making any claims that could be so easily impeached.

His overall credibility can certainly be called into question by his reported history of claiming to have been on the receiving end of similar attacks before, and his apparent submission of a false statement on his ride-along/CPA application.
 
RandFan said:
If it is shown that Zimmerman continued his pursuit then I think that is problematic. I don't know about Florida but in a number of states you are not supposed to unnecessarily create a situation that could lead to harm. I think it reasonable that Zimmerman believed confronting Martin could lead to harm. Having called for police and knowing they were dispatched there was no need for him to do that. And this is important IMO, Martin had not committed a crime, right?
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Listen to the background noises in Zimmerman's 911 call after Zimmerman's comment about Martin running.

Zimmerman wasn't chasing someone he saw committing a crime. But he apparently didn't think of it that way. Martin was an ******* that was going to get away if he waited for the cops to show up.
 
sgtbaker said:
If, and I stress if the girlfriend's statement is accurate: Zimmerman, is driving and sees a kid walking slowly in the rain. He watches him for a second to see why he is wandering around in the rain. Martin says to his girlfriend, there's this guy watching me and he pulls his hood over his head. Given the neighborhood has had a series of recent robberies committed by young black males (according to Zimmerman's neighbor), Zimmerman may have seen a kid notice he is being watched and pulls his hoodie up. Zimmerman may have thought he was hiding his identity. Just a possibility based on what has been added to the story since the beginning.
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Thanks. I often walk through my neighboorhood to get coffee or a slurpee. I had a difficult time imagining that do so would be suspicious unless I was black and fit some stereotype. But, I will admit that if that were true and I was the one observing I might find that suspicious.
 
I can't understand trying to hide all of this kid's behavioral problems. They had to know these would come out, and they probably don't affect the incident. Why tell us he's such a sweet kid, only to have us find out otherwise?
 
sgtbaker said:
If, and I stress if the girlfriend's statement is accurate: Zimmerman, is driving and sees a kid walking slowly in the rain. He watches him for a second to see why he is wandering around in the rain. Martin says to his girlfriend, there's this guy watching me and he pulls his hood over his head. Given the neighborhood has had a series of recent robberies committed by young black males (according to Zimmerman's neighbor), Zimmerman may have seen a kid notice he is being watched and pulls his hoodie up. Zimmerman may have thought he was hiding his identity. Just a possibility based on what has been added to the story since the beginning.
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Zimmerman's neighborhood had experienced a few burglaries, but nobody saw it happen. Someone did see some black kids in the neighborhood and decided that they must have been the burglars. Welcome to the world of racial stereotyping.
 
LTC8K6 said:
I can't understand trying to hide all of this kid's behavioral problems. They had to know these would come out, and they probably don't affect the incident. Why tell us he's such a sweet kid, only to have us find out otherwise?
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I can understand. Happens with prosecutors and defense attys also. If you don't think the information is relevant and that Martin truly was murdered why would you want that info to prejudice people? It's human nature. If it were my son that was dead and I thought he had been murdered I wouldn't want his indiscretions made known. Wouldn't make me right.
 
LTC8K6 said:
I can't understand trying to hide all of this kid's behavioral problems. They had to know these would come out, and they probably don't affect the incident. Why tell us he's such a sweet kid, only to have us find out otherwise?
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First, the evidence 'otherwise' is sketchy at best.

And as pointed out, there is no way Zimmerman could have known anything about the victim's past, and there is no way that the victim's past could be a legal factor in the self defense claim.

There's nothing to hide, Martin isn't going on trial for anything.
 
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LTC8K6 said:
I can't understand trying to hide all of this kid's behavioral problems. They had to know these would come out, and they probably don't affect the incident. Why tell us he's such a sweet kid, only to have us find out otherwise?
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Because they don't affect the incident.

What I can (sort of) understand is the demonising of Martin through the claim he was in a gang. Disgraceful, but sadly predictable.
 
Kestrel said:
It's called being a skeptic. Recognizing that Zimmerman has a really good reason to make his side of the story sound as innocent as possible.
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Absolutely. A skeptic would also recognize that there was only one eyewitness to the event and all the other testimonies, after the fact that are showing up days and weeks later, might also have motive.

Zimmerman didn't stop when the dispatcher told him to stop. He rejected the suggestion to wait for the cops next to his truck. He didn't want this one to get away and had a plan.
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I think a skeptic might realize the amount of speculation in that statement. Maybe even wonder how they concluded that Zimmerman didn't end the pursuit when the only statements in controvert to that claim is that Trayvon wouldn't do that, made by his grieving mother.

So what did he do? Did he chase directly after Martin, or down the street then between condo units where he could cut Martin off and confront him?
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I don't know exactly what you did. I would certainly appreciate some evidence, though. All we have, at this time is evidence of a struggle with zero evidence of who initiated it; but as a skeptic, I am sure you recognized that.

Remember that Martin's only crime was looking like Zimmerman's stereotype of a burglar. He was black and male, just like the 9 year old kid that Zimmerman called the cops about in an earlier incident.
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I know, he's terrible, isn't he? Calling the police when people are jumping the fence into the pool area and vandalizing and when a woman is terrorizing old people, nothing is more unsuspicious than a car circling the neighborhood, repeatedly, with no apparent destination. You know, this kind of shows that he has a habit of NOT taking the law into his own hand. Weird but thanks for bringing up that point. But you got the smoking gun, you've officially proven how evil Zimmerman is, for calling about a 7-9 year old boy, walking alone, and expressing concern for his well being. That monster!
 
Hate to drag this back unnecessarily, but regarding a holster or stuffing a weapon in your waistband: I don't know enough about the law, but does this matter?
 
lionking said:
Because they don't affect the incident.

What I can (sort of) understand is the demonising of Martin through the claim he was in a gang. Disgraceful, but sadly predictable.
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It's slanting the story to present a person that would never be confrontational to prove there is no way Trayvon would have gone after Zimmerman. It's not to prove Zimmerman had a reason to follow him but to make Zimmerman's story appear inconsistent to Trayvon's character. It's merely a trial by public opinion.
 
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