Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[a_unique_person]

OK, you are beyond credibility here... nowhere has Zimmerman's lawyer said a word about his client being raped, robbed, or assaulted with a deadly weapon. No claim that he was intervening to stop a forcible felony. No stand your ground. Simply self defense.

The exact claim is that Trayvon went for the gun, putting Zimmerman in fear for his life.
http://gma.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-shooter-told-cops-teenager-went-gun-030349812--abc-news.html

So Trayvon isn't allowed to fear for his life because a stranger is holding a gun at him?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Well another possibility is that while going back to his truck, Martin was doubling back to get to the house he was staying at. They can't see each other until the last second. When they do see each other they are closer now & Zimmerman thinks Martin doubled back to confront him. ....

This does not fit with the location of the shooting, the place Z parked and the location of T's condo.

 

[nadsat]

read through this thread. thanks to Giz, sgtbaker, WildCat and others for keeping it sane. They seem to be in the right as more and more facts are trickling out. Some of you should go back and read your posts in the beginning of this thread and be embarrassed.

 

[triforcharity]

As stated before, it doesn't work like that IRL. I already posted a video of a bare-chested man getting fatally shot in the chest without blood splattering all over the place like in a Hollywood action movie, now imagine if he was 2 layers of clothing, the outer one a thick sweatshirt. I doubt blood would splatter through that.

We also don't know what Zimmerman told the cops, he might not have shot him when Martin was on top of him.

You keep making assumptions that are not in evidence.

No I have not made any assumptions. I've very clearly stated "if" M was on top of Z and Z fired his weapon point blank into his chest, he would have had blood all over him. I am basing this on a murder scene I personally saw with my own two eyes. He was wearing a speatshirt, not a goddamn coat.

 

[crimresearch]

I'll need to find the details of the FL law but most states which allow concealed carried weapons have laws on the books that prohibit flashing guns. The gun must be carried in a holster or pack that conceals the fact that one is carrying a weapon. Many of them do not look like a traditional cowboy holster, they look like pouches or fanny packs.

If Martin went for Zimmerman's gun, he would have had to recognize a holster and remove the gun from the holster while in the middle of a scuffle.

Unless Zimmerman was carrying a concealed weapon in his car, then the laws are different. A concealed weapon in a vehicle needs to be securely encased. If Zimmerman pulled it out of that case in order to stalk Martin, he may not have had a body holster. In that case he may have had the weapon in his hand (or waistband) but probably was not carrying it in a legal fashion. Even the most lenient gun states don't allow you to run around waving a gun.

Either Martin had very limited access to a holstered gun or he could have seen Zimmerman holding a gun. In the latter case, he probably would have tried to avoid confrontation.

Generally, a concealed weapons permit doesn't mean 'Must be completely concealed' or specify 'securely encased if in a car'. Some states spell out how to legally transport a firearm in a car without a permit, such as unloaded in a case.

Most places do have a specific ordinance about brandishing with or without a permit, or even specify that if someone complains about seeing a permit holder's weapon, then the weapon must be covered up, but those would be case by case, not blanket.

 

[leftysergeant]

That's why I would question it, actually. Besides, it doesn't make any sense.

Was the unauthorized area a school bus, perhaps?

If his suspension isn't a reflection of his character at the time, they why can't we know what it was about?

Because it has no relevance to why the fat socipath was stalking him.

As another poster pointed out, if Zimmerman's character is a factor, then so is Martin's.

No. Z's conduct was the result of his being a sociopath. Martin did nothing to initiate the encounter.

 

[crimresearch]

So Trayvon isn't allowed to fear for his life because a stranger is holding a gun at him?

Why are you making up nonsense and smearing up my post with it?

 

[WildCat]

So Trayvon isn't allowed to fear for his life because a stranger is holding a gun at him?

Your evidence for this is...?

 

[leftysergeant]

There's a source for Martin trying to take Zimmerman's gun.

http://gma.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-shooter-told-cops-teenager-went-gun-030349812--abc-news.html

So? Martin had a right to take the gun, maybe even to shoot the moron with it if he tried to get it back.

 

[AvalonXQ]

No. Z's conduct was the result of his being a sociopath. Martin did nothing to initiate the encounter.

It appears that lefty has remote viewing powers, and his and mine contradict.

Care to outline what you saw in viewing the incident that made you certain that Martin did nothing to initiate the encounter? Zimmerman's story is that he was walking back to his truck and Martin accosted him. Do you have evidence to contradict this?

 

[AvalonXQ]

So? Martin had a right to take the gun, maybe even to shoot the moron with it if he tried to get it back.

Nope. Zimmerman had a right to shoot the moron that beat him to the ground, then kept beating him.

A set of facts that you appear to continue to ignore.

Martin beat Zimmerman to the ground, and then kept beating him. A thug does this, you shoot him. End of story.

 

[leftysergeant]

No I have not made any assumptions. I've very clearly stated "if" M was on top of Z and Z fired his weapon point blank into his chest, he would have had blood all over him. I am basing this on a murder scene I personally saw with my own two eyes. He was wearing a speatshirt, not a goddamn coat.

Maybe you can straighten Wildcat out on what the shooting he uses as an example shows. There is a hell of a big difference between being shot with a rubber bullet and a 9mm.

 

[leftysergeant]

Nope. Zimmerman had a right to shoot the moron that beat him to the ground, then kept beating him.

A set of facts that you appear to continue to ignore.

Martin beat Zimmerman to the ground, and then kept beating him. A thug does this, you shoot him. End of story.

The law says that you have to be engaged in a legitimate activity in a place you have a right to be.

Fatboy had no right to be blocking Martin's way home. He needed his brains bashed out. You don't have a right to defend yourself if you convince somebody you are going to harm him for no good reason.

 

[crimresearch]

Nope. Zimmerman had a right to shoot the moron that beat him to the ground, then kept beating him.

A set of facts that you appear to continue to ignore.

Martin beat Zimmerman to the ground, and then kept beating him. A thug does this, you shoot him. End of story.

And yet you still haven't produced the law that says you can use deadly force in response to a mere fistfight.

 

[leftysergeant]

Zimmerman's story is that he was walking back to his truck and Martin accosted him. Do you have evidence to contradict this?

He wasn't supposed to be out of his truck with his gun in the first place. He placed himself where he knew Martin would have to be at some point. He had no right to be where he was. His remarks about Martin looking like he was on drugs shows a pattern of confabulation that puts everything the little whackadoodle says into question.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

The law says that you have to be engaged in a legitimate activity in a place you have a right to be.

Fatboy had no right to be blocking Martin's way home. He needed his brains bashed out. You don't have a right to defend yourself if you convince somebody you are going to harm him for no good reason.

The only evidence we have that 'Fatboy' was blocking anyone is ... none.

Posts that ignore all the evidence and examination put forth in this thread are spectacularly useless.

 

[RandFan]

Nope. Zimmerman had a right to shoot the moron that beat him to the ground, then kept beating him.

A set of facts that you appear to continue to ignore.

Those are facts? If Martin was legitimately in fear of his life did he have a right to defend himself?

 

[bookitty]

Generally, a concealed weapons permit doesn't mean 'Must be completely concealed' or specify 'securely encased if in a car'. Some states spell out how to legally transport a firearm in a car without a permit, such as unloaded in a case.

Most places do have a specific ordinance about brandishing with or without a permit, or even specify that if someone complains about seeing a permit holder's weapon, then the weapon must be covered up, but those would be case by case, not blanket.

And it will vary widely from state to state and even county to county. My husband is a member of the NRA (and a libertarian, btw) so we get a lot of literature. The 99% that isn't fund-raising is about new laws around the US. It's incredibly diverse.

 

[lionking]

I believe Brattus was commenting, sarcastically, on some of the emotional slant various media stories have taken.

ETA: This post above sums it up.

Your evidence for this is...?

The fact that Zimmerman shot Martin and admits to it is pretty sound evidence he was holding a gun.

 

[Dancing David]

I'll need to find the details of the FL law but most states which allow concealed carried weapons have laws on the books that prohibit flashing guns. The gun must be carried in a holster or pack that conceals the fact that one is carrying a weapon. Many of them do not look like a traditional cowboy holster, they look like pouches or fanny packs.

If Martin went for Zimmerman's gun, he would have had to recognize a holster and remove the gun from the holster while in the middle of a scuffle.

Unless Zimmerman was carrying a concealed weapon in his car, then the laws are different. A concealed weapon in a vehicle needs to be securely encased. If Zimmerman pulled it out of that case in order to stalk Martin, he may not have had a body holster. In that case he may have had the weapon in his hand (or waistband) but probably was not carrying it in a legal fashion. Even the most lenient gun states don't allow you to run around waving a gun.

Either Martin had very limited access to a holstered gun or he could have seen Zimmerman holding a gun. In the latter case, he probably would have tried to avoid confrontation.

So far most reports have said it was carried in a 'waistband' which I find shocking.