Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[crimresearch]

Apparently that has changed or wasreported incorrectly.

Several pages back I linked to the article where he is explicity quoted as saying that the 'stand your ground' aspect wouldn't apply, but that the self defense statute itself would.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4684508...your-ground-doesnt-apply-trayvon-martin-case/


And that makes perfect sense, the legislator who created SYG has already gone on record as saying that the statute was not meant to promote pursuing someone, but merely to remove the older backed into a corner/duty to retreat.
Nothing suggests that Zimmerman was backed into a corner.


Later stories claim that Sonner said SYG, but don't use quotation marks for those exact words. I'm guessing that the media is not letting facts mess up a good 'controversy'.

 

[LTC8K6]

Apparently that has changed or wasreported incorrectly.

I really don't see how SYG is necessary or even applies.

I think it's a plain self defense case for Zimmerman's lawyers.

 

[Checkmite]

I've seen a bit of this in this thread, and also other media - portraying Martin in a bad light. He's a gangster, he got suspended from school, he has gold teeth, etc. Why would this matter? Whether he was a choir boy or a hardened criminal, it doesn't change the facts of this case, whatever they may be.

Was wondering a bit of that myself. As far as I know, nobody is saying what happened is "more wrong" because Martin has a clean image in the provided photos, any more than repeating that Martin was carrying Skittles is saying that what happened to him was more wrong "because he was carrying candy".

Whatever he looked like, Zimmerman had no trouble immediately describing him as a black teenager (indeed, to tell from his 911 history, Zimmerman seems to have become proficient at identifying suspicious black teen boys in the months before the shooting).

 

[WildCat]

Yepo! I mean, how logical would it be that if someone was on top of you, and you shot them dead, that would cause blood to fall out of their body and onto you.

Imagine that.

As stated before, it doesn't work like that IRL. I already posted a video of a bare-chested man getting fatally shot in the chest without blood splattering all over the place like in a Hollywood action movie, now imagine if he was 2 layers of clothing, the outer one a thick sweatshirt. I doubt blood would splatter through that.

We also don't know what Zimmerman told the cops, he might not have shot him when Martin was on top of him.

You keep making assumptions that are not in evidence.

 

[WildCat]

And the pristine bullet would then float to a nearby rooftop.

 

[LTC8K6]

Was wondering a bit of that myself. As far as I know, nobody is saying what happened is "more wrong" because Martin has a clean image in the provided photos, any more than repeating that Martin was carrying Skittles is saying that what happened to him was more wrong "because he was carrying candy".

Whatever he looked like, Zimmerman had no trouble immediately describing him as a black teenager (indeed, to tell from his 911 history, Zimmerman seems to have become proficient at identifying suspicious black teen boys in the months before the shooting).

Zimmerman's 911 call history amounts to less than 1 call per week. Hardly a lot for someone doing a neighborhood watch. He rarely called about a suspicious person.

Zimmerman called police 46 times since Jan. 1, 2011 to report disturbances, break-ins, windows left open and other incidents. Nine of those times, he saw someone or something suspicious.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/v-fullstory/2700249/shooter-of-trayvon-martin-a-habitual.html

 

[WildCat]

Zimmerman's 911 call history amounts to less than 1 call per week. Hardly a lot for someone doing a neighborhood watch. He rarely called about a suspicious person.



http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/v-fullstory/2700249/shooter-of-trayvon-martin-a-habitual.html

Depending on which story you read, the 911 calls were either made in the last year, or since 2009 (when Zimmerman moved to the gated community), or since 2004 (when he first started volunteering for the neighborhood watch).

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Depending on which story you read, the 911 calls were either made in the last year, or since 2009 (when Zimmerman moved to the gated community), or since 2004 (when he first started volunteering for the neighborhood watch).

We don't need to rely on the stories.

SPD posted the calls. They start in 2004

http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/327330-george-zimmerrman-911-call-history.html

 

[LTC8K6]

We don't need to rely on the stories.

SPD posted the calls. They start in 2004

http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/327330-george-zimmerrman-911-call-history.html

That's it?

 

[Checkmite]

Zimmerman's 911 call history amounts to less than 1 call per week. Hardly a lot for someone doing a neighborhood watch. He rarely called about a suspicious person.

That's right, there were the calls about open windows and trash; let's not forget those.

I'd like to see some support for your contention that more than three 911 calls a month is "not a lot", even for someone doing a neighborhood watch.

 

[Silly Green Monkey]

I roam neighborhoods every night early in the morning, and I make police calls maybe once every four to six months....

 

[tsig]

Why yes, we know Martin was shot dead. We don't know what immediately preceded that point .

My guess would be that someone pointed a gun at him and pulled the trigger.

 

[Information Analyst]

The point is that "John" was in a position to see who was screaming for help, and no one else, including Cutcher, was in such a position.

It still tells us nothing about what preceeded the screaming.

No, it's not threatening. Neither is "what are you doing here". I've been asked the latter many times as a white person who worked primarily in black neighborhoods, especially when I was in my late teens and early 20s. By cops who assumed I was there looking for drugs or lost, and by residents (including obvious gangbangers) who wondered the same or thought I was an undercover cop. I never took such inquiries as threatening, and certainly never started swinging at someone for asking.

If I found a stranger staring at me from a vehicle, and then shortly after that that person was following behind me on foot or had somehow got ahead of me, it would certainly cause me some concern, regardless of where it took place.

We know from his call to his girlfriend that Martin was concerned about Zimmerman, and there's really nothing that can somehow cancel out that reaction on his part. Martin was as entitled to feel concerned for his own position as anyone else, and that can't be negated purely on the grounds that you personally or anyone else might claim that you or they would not be concerned in the same circumstances. We also certainly don't know who started swinging at who, so to imply it must have been Martin without a shred of evidence is uncalled for.

 

[Bob001]

He'll probably be killed in prison anyway.

Hold on. I think the guy probably deserves some prison time, too. But nobody deserves to be murdered in prison. I think we tend to be way too casual about the state of our prison systems.

 

[WildCat]

We don't need to rely on the stories.

SPD posted the calls. They start in 2004

http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/327330-george-zimmerrman-911-call-history.html

So he called 911 on average about once every 2 months.

 

[LTC8K6]

That's right, there were the calls about open windows and trash; let's not forget those.

I'd like to see some support for your contention that more than three 911 calls a month is "not a lot", even for someone doing a neighborhood watch.

Contention? Anyway I was wrong. It was way less often.

I thought it was my opinion.

How many calls are about a suspicious person?

 

[tsig]

Because the situation changed?

Are you contending that Zimmerman intended to shoot Martin from the moment he stepped out of his vehicle?

Answering a question with a question dodge. I see that all you want to do is play word games and dance around the point so I'll leave you to enjoy the waltz.

 

[LTC8K6]

It still tells us nothing about what preceeded the screaming.


If I found a stranger staring at me from a vehicle, and then shortly after that that person was following behind me on foot or had somehow got ahead of me, it would certainly cause me some concern, regardless of where it took place.

We know from his call to his girlfriend that Martin was concerned about Zimmerman, and there's really nothing that can somehow cancel out that reaction on his part. Martin was as entitled to feel concerned for his own position as anyone else, and that can't be negated purely on the grounds that you personally or anyone else might claim that you or they would not be concerned in the same circumstances. We also certainly don't know who started swinging at who, so to imply it must have been Martin without a shred of evidence is uncalled for.

I'd have called 911 about a guy following me.

 

[WildCat]

We also certainly don't know who started swinging at who, so to imply it must have been Martin without a shred of evidence is uncalled for.

That was in response to those here who claim Martin had every right to attack Zimmerman for making him feel threatened by following him and asking him "what are you doing here", not to imply that Martin swung first. leftysergeant being the most egregious example, but he's not the only one.

 

[Unabogie]

George Zimmerman pushed Trayvon Martin?

http://www.theatlantic.com/national...-was-looking-for-trouble-and-found-it/254815/

The lawyer, who took an affidavit from the girl, quotes the girl on the cellphone as saying that Trayvon was walking home from the store and had temporarily taken refuge from the rain. He then began walking again, when he tells her, according to Crump, "I think this dude is following me." "She tells him, 'Baby, be careful, just run home,' " Crump said. According to the girl, Trayvon says, "I think I lost him" then moments later says, "He is right behind me again. I'm not going to run, I'm going to walk fast." Crump said "she hears another voice, 'What are you doing around here?' Trayvon says, 'Why are you following me?' " At that point, according to the girl, Travyon is pushed and his voice changes.

First I've heard this. Does this change any minds if Zimmerman pushed Trayvon at this point?