Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[WildCat]

OK, well as I guess with everything else, it will be up to a potential jury to decide if it was a "minor incident" or not.

No. The jury will not be told about it at all. If they discuss it it's grounds for a mistrial.

 

[leftysergeant]

No. The jury will not be told about it at all. If they discuss it it's grounds for a mistrial.

Maybe not. It addresses his sociopathic personality disorder.

 

[Roadtoad]

Maybe not. It addresses his sociopathic personality disorder.

We don't know if he has that or not. There's so much we don't know about this case. This particular point is more for the experts.

 

[leftysergeant]

We don't know if he has that or not. There's so much we don't know about this case. This particular point is more for the experts.

His stalking of the ex-girlfriend strongly suggests that.

 

[WildCat]

Maybe not. It addresses his sociopathic personality disorder.

Which would only be an issue in sentencing, not the trial.

 

[leftysergeant]

Which would only be an issue in sentencing, not the trial.

Addresses his credibility.

 

[tyr_13]

Combine so much unknown, a lot of agencies looking into things, with a ton of people speculating, making assumptions, pushing theories, presenting 'evidence', changing testimony, extrapolating/refining past event and it's a recipe for eating crow.

A lot of people aren't just going to be wrong, but be silly wrong. I want to know more.

 

[WildCat]

Addresses his credibility.

If it's brought up there will be a mistrial.

 

[Unabogie]

Well, this is the only report I have seen, but the attorney's may have seen something different.

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin Lakes Shooting Initial Report.pdf

It's written at 03:29 (am) on Feb. 27th.

So, if it's been changed and amended, and no note is made accounting for that and explaining why, then it's falsifying and altering an official document, which is a crime.

But, until I see the "original" and the updated, I'll reserve judgement. Based on the SPD's history of fuging and generally screwing things up, I wouldn't doubt it.

I emailed the reporter who wrote that and asked how he knew that, and I'll let you know what he says.

 

[Noztradamus]

If Zimmerman were parked on the road near the mailboxes past the clubhouse (using the map posted earlier in this thread), Trayvon had to "come towards" him on his way down the street. When I hear Zimmerman say "he's coming towards me," then "he's checking me out", then "he's walking away from me", I see Trayvon walking down the sidewalk or street from the entrance, past Zimmerman's vehicle, and towards the houses beyond. At some point Zimmerman gets out of his vehicle, Martin notices and runs. Zimmerman gives chase but "loses him", probably because Martin ran around back of the houses, perhaps hiding; the dispatcher tries to get Zimmerman to return to his vehicle, but Zimmerman refuses and tells the dispatcher to have the responding officer call him to get his location instead, ends the call, and continues around behind the houses to search. Meanwhile Martin, who (according to his telephone friend) thinks he's "lost" his stalker is no longer in a hurry, and is either walking or coming out of his hiding place; Zimmerman catches up to him because he's no longer running, but at some point Martin suddenly notices Zimmerman right behind him as he tells his girlfriend; he challenges Zimmerman, who challenges him right back, and that's it.

There's a scenario for you - perfectly compatible with both Z's recorded phone call and Martin's girlfriend's account; and which, I believe, puts Martin legally on the defensive.

I would agree with most of that, but think, from Zimmerman's statement the polce would see his truck when they reached the mailboxes, he was further down Twin Trees Lane. Martin walking approached Z, (or "Coming up to me") but didn't pass him. When Martin got the wiggens he walked, then ran, back up the lane and along the walkway at the end of the block of houses.
Z, more familar with the area, and who said he was near the cutthrough at 7:15, went through it at the other end of the block, losing sight of Martin, but placing himself ahead of him.
One minute later, Martin after running and walking fast, believes he's lost the weird guy, but finds he hasn't.

 

[crimresearch]

All the twists and turns leading up to the actual shooting can be brought up by either side to imply lack of credibility, propensity, and intent.

It is still going to come down to the long standing tests for self defense. Was it reasonable at the time of the shooting for Zimmerman to think he was in clear and imminent danger of dying or being seriously hurt?

Losing a fistfight alone is not usually sufficient to respond with shooting.

Arguing that Martin *might* have taken the gun away and shot Zimmerman contains its own set of hurdles... what was there about being punched in the nose under the totality of the circumstances, that would lead a person with similar knowledge to think the same thing?

And that is where Zimmerman's holster sniffing might come back against him... he could be held to a higher standard than someone just out for a walk who is attacked.

 

[leftysergeant]

Arguing that Martin *might* have taken the gun away and shot Zimmerman contains its own set of hurdles... what was there about being punched in the nose under the totality of the circumstances, that would lead a person with similar knowledge to think the same thing?

And that is where Zimmerman's holster sniffing might come back against him... he could be held to a higher standard than someone just out for a walk who is attacked.

Had Martin succeded in securing the weapon, he would have had the right to blow Z's brains out, under SYG.

Z was outside the law when he confronted Martin. He had no right to defend himself.

 

[crimresearch]

Had Martin succeded in securing the weapon, he would have had the right to blow Z's brains out, under SYG.

Z was outside the law when he confronted Martin. He had no right to defend himself.

That's a revenge fantasy, not what the law says.

 

[This is The End]

No. The jury will not be told about it at all. If they discuss it it's grounds for a mistrial.

Are you saying that prior arrests are never discussed in jury trials?

 

[leftysergeant]

That's a revenge fantasy, not what the law says.

Cow cookies. Z had no right to defend himself, under the law, after putting Martin in fear for his life.

The law allows people who are put in fear for their lives to use deadly force.

Martin is the victim. There is no way that Z could ever have been called such, even if Martin had beaten what little the slob had for brains out of his skull.

 

[WildCat]

Are you saying that prior arrests are never discussed in jury trials?

No. They will consider the facts of this case only. You can't, for example, try an armed robbery suspect and present to the jury a past armed robbery conviction as evidence that he's guilty of the one he's on trial for.

 

[quadraginta]

I don't see any condos with a sidewalk running between them near that address. It's close to Twin Lakes where I found the image I copied and Twin Lakes was mentioned in one of the stories.

Either that gated community is huge or that address for Z is wrong.

Address is wrong. It's about four miles away from the Twin Lakes development.

I feel sorry for whomever does live at that address. They're liable to get some unwelcome attention.

The Orlando Sentinel put up this map and timeline a week or so ago, with an approximate location for Zimmerman's residence in the development, as well as some of the other key points.

I zoomed a satellite view of the neighborhood from Google Maps and transferred the relevant points. (VERY approximate.)

The condos seem to be mostly six unit structures with a narrow passage between the ends of each building.

 

[leftysergeant]

This looks even more wack. Where was Z when he called 911? There is no reason Martin would have passed by his unit if he entered off of Oregon Ave. Z lived damned near as far away as you can get without leaving the compound. He killed Martin between the Oregon entrance and his father's place. Was he wandering about the area looking for something to report?

I don't think I would recognize half of the neighbors in an area that big. How would that doofus know who was supposed to be there or not? Looking at some of the inconsistancies in his story, I doubt that he has a good enough memory to remember that many people.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I would agree with most of that, but think, from Zimmerman's statement the polce would see his truck when they reached the mailboxes, he was further down Twin Trees Lane. Martin walking approached Z, (or "Coming up to me") but didn't pass him. When Martin got the wiggens he walked, then ran, back up the lane and along the walkway at the end of the block of houses.
Z, more familar with the area, and who said he was near the cutthrough at 7:15, went through it at the other end of the block, losing sight of Martin, but placing himself ahead of him.
One minute later, Martin after running and walking fast, believes he's lost the weird guy, but finds he hasn't.

I see nothing in Z's claims as reported by police or anyone else that this is what happened. You are making up a scenario there is no reason to think happened.

 

[Noztradamus]

I see nothing in Z's claims as reported by police or anyone else that this is what happened. You are making up a scenario there is no reason to think happened.

Anaylsis of where Zimmerman told the police phone line his truck was, matched against where Martin's body was found.