• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

Status
Not open for further replies.
No it's not. I was 6ft and weighed about 145 when I was 16. I was a fit athlete but by no means "very thin".

I beg to differ, my boyfriend is 6' and 150lbs and he's considered very skinny by just about everyone (including me, and himself). Not sure how this discussion is relevant though...

But I really can't believe the mental gymnastics people go through to justify this shooting. Since when is it justified to go out in the street and provoke a violent confrontation based on nothing but ultra-vague suspicions that someone is "dangerous"? WTF?
 
The timeline already linked has Zimmerman calling shortly before 7:15PM, the officer who wrote the ICR arriving (probably at the gate) at 7:17PM, and the 911 tapes show that witesses were on the phone when the shot is heard, followed by 'someone with flashlights' (the officers) being outside, so probably 7:19

5 minutes for Zimmerman to do all that phoning, driving, following, returning and being attacked.
 
I beg to differ, my boyfriend is 6' and 150lbs and he's considered very skinny by just about everyone (including me, and himself). Not sure how this discussion is relevant though...

But I really can't believe the mental gymnastics people go through to justify this shooting. Since when is it justified to go out in the street and provoke a violent confrontation based on nothing but ultra-vague suspicions that someone is "dangerous"? WTF?
I'm trying to keep an open mind. I really am. But I don't get it. No crime was in process. Zimmerman suspected Martin, it was BS but okay, I'll humor his ego. He called 911 and the police were dispatched. He was told that the police didn't need Zimmerman to follow Martin. No good could have come from Zimmerman getting out of his car. But for that asinine decision Trayvon would be alive.

I'll keep following the discussion but I suspect that there will not be any justification forthcoming. We'll see.
 
Last edited:
To try and get back to the facts.

I wonder if we know an exact time when the shot was fired?

I notice that the police report says an officer was dispatched to the scene at 7:17 PM. So I assume the shot was fired soon after that.

Do any of the witnesses say when it was fired?
I'm sure the 911 call is matched to a time stamp and the girlfriend's phone conversation timing is on record.

It's like the autopsy, the answers are out there. I can't wait for someone to end the suspense and reveal the evidence.
 
The timeline already linked has Zimmerman calling shortly before 7:15PM, the officer who wrote the ICR arriving (probably at the gate) at 7:17PM, and the 911 tapes show that witesses were on the phone when the shot is heard, followed by 'someone with flashlights' (the officers) being outside, so probably 7:19

Thanks crimeresearch. Do you have that time-line link handy?

7:19 is currently the best guess?

I'd really like to confirm the time the shot was fired.

5 minutes for Zimmerman to do all that phoning, driving, following, returning and being attacked.

Yeah, I would like to know exactly how much time transpired between when M first noticed that Z was following him and when the shot was fired.

We know that M indicated to the GF on the phone that M noticed he was being followed.

---------------

What do we know about the previous claims that the fight occurred at a different location from where the shot was fired? Has that been resolved?
 
If Zimmerman were parked on the road near the mailboxes past the clubhouse (using the map posted earlier in this thread), Trayvon had to "come towards" him on his way down the street. When I hear Zimmerman say "he's coming towards me," then "he's checking me out", then "he's walking away from me", I see Trayvon walking down the sidewalk or street from the entrance, past Zimmerman's vehicle, and towards the houses beyond. At some point Zimmerman gets out of his vehicle, Martin notices and runs. Zimmerman gives chase but "loses him", probably because Martin ran around back of the houses, perhaps hiding; the dispatcher tries to get Zimmerman to return to his vehicle, but Zimmerman refuses and tells the dispatcher to have the responding officer call him to get his location instead, ends the call, and continues around behind the houses to search. Meanwhile Martin, who (according to his telephone friend) thinks he's "lost" his stalker is no longer in a hurry, and is either walking or coming out of his hiding place; Zimmerman catches up to him because he's no longer running, but at some point Martin suddenly notices Zimmerman right behind him as he tells his girlfriend; he challenges Zimmerman, who challenges him right back, and that's it.

There's a scenario for you - perfectly compatible with both Z's recorded phone call and Martin's girlfriend's account; and which, I believe, puts Martin legally on the defensive.
 
Last edited:
OK so technically Z was not charged with assault, that does not mean that he did not push one of the officers in the incident.

Also, you didn't answer the question.

I'll rephrase it since I assume you refuse to answer it because "assault" has a technical definition.
Yes.

YMMV
 
Here's an interesting article debunking a few facts and confirming a few:

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/na...s_myths_half_truths/srvc=home&position=recent

—Sanford cops usually call a prosecutor to the scene of a homicide but did not that night.

True, according to police and the State Attorney’s Office in Seminole-Brevard. Police talked to a prosecutor by phone that night, but she did not go to the scene. Based on the evidence they gathered that night, police believed they did not have enough evidence to arrest Zimmerman on a manslaughter charge because of his account of what happened and claim of self-defense.

—Zimmerman fired twice, a warning shot and a kill shot.

Untrue, according to several witnesses and law enforcement. Two loud bangs can be heard on one 911 call, and family attorneys said last week that that was evidence of two shots, but several witnesses who’ve spoken publicly about what they heard all describe a single shot. And a source close to the investigation told The Orlando Sentinel just one shot was fired from Zimmerman’s gun.

I assume the 2nd loud bang on one of the 911 tapes was an echo?
 
(I added paragraphs to the below quote.)

If Zimmerman were parked on the road near the mailboxes past the clubhouse (using the map posted earlier in this thread), Trayvon had to "come towards" him on his way down the street. When I hear Zimmerman say "he's coming towards me," then "he's checking me out", then "he's walking away from me", I see Trayvon walking down the sidewalk or street from the entrance, past Zimmerman's vehicle, and towards the houses beyond.

At some point Zimmerman gets out of his vehicle, Martin notices and runs. Zimmerman gives chase but "loses him", probably because Martin ran around back of the houses, perhaps hiding; the dispatcher tries to get Zimmerman to return to his vehicle, but Zimmerman refuses and tells the dispatcher to have the responding officer call him to get his location instead, ends the call, and continues around behind the houses to search.

Meanwhile Martin, who (according to his telephone friend) thinks he's "lost" his stalker is no longer in a hurry, and is either walking or coming out of his hiding place; Zimmerman catches up to him because he's no longer running, but at some point Martin suddenly notices Zimmerman right behind him as he tells his girlfriend; he challenges Zimmerman, who challenges him right back, and that's it.



I have to agree that there is much information (that we know) confirming that scenario, and very little or no information (that we know) that disputes that scenario.

That seems to be, currently, a best guess for how this played out.
 
I may have missed this and I'm falling behind on the thread, but did anyone catch that the mention of blood and grass stains was not on the original police report but was added later?

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/...ission-votes-no-confidence.html#storylink=cpy

• Initial police reports never mentioned that Zimmerman had a bloody nose or a wet shirt that showed evidence of a struggle. Attorneys for the dead teen’s family believe the information was added in a second report to justify the lack of an arrest.

I'm very distrustful of police reports that "remember" key details that just happen to support an officer who finds himself in hot water.

I'm not saying that proves it's false, just that we've been relying on this bit of evidence to show that Zimmerman showed signs of a fight. This appears to have been added later once it became apparent that such evidence was important.
 
Wow, no I did not hear about that at all. I hope it's not true; because if it is, it strongly suggests intentional malfeasance rather than a couple of accidental missteps on the part of the Sanford PD.
 
Thanks to WildCat I have worded these points very carefully.

These could be main prosecution points in a potential trial.

I would appreciate any further suggestions to making them more correct.

As for opinions on whether or not they are relevant to the case, feel free, but that doesn't help make them more clear.

*: Z had been previously arrested soon after, and directly relating to, an incident where Z was arguing with multiple police officers and where Z pushed (or shoved) one of the officers. Neither the argument with officers nor the pushing of an officer were disputed by either side in the resulting case and Z ended up having to "complete a pretrial-diversion program" to avoid conviction.

*: Z was given a very serious sounding suggestion to stop following M by a police dispatcher. This suggestion was given during Z's pursuit of M and was within several minutes of the fatal shot being fired.
 
Yes, and it was a very minor incident. It certainly doesn't indicate that Zimmerman is a violent person, which is what the people bringing it up are trying to show.
Well, there's that and the fights with his girlfriend and the homicide.
 
I wonder if we know an exact time when the shot was fired?

I notice that the police report says an officer was dispatched to the scene at 7:17 PM. So I assume the shot was fired soon after that.

Do any of the witnesses say when it was fired?
That can be precisely determined by the 911 calls from the surrounding residences. It is audible on at least one of them.
 
That's not always the case. If Zimmerman told them that he had not lost consciousness, they would then leave it up to Zimmerman's discretion as to whether or not he should seek medical attention.

True. However, if would be highly unlikely if the claim is that he was slammed into the ground repetedly, he wouldn't have had just a superficial scrape.

Sorry, not happening. I'm not buying that bull **** claim. And there's no indication that the story is factual anyway.
 
That's not always the case. If Zimmerman told them that he had not lost consciousness, they would then leave it up to Zimmerman's discretion as to whether or not he should seek medical attention.
Only an incompetent would let him walk away without having a medical team look at his injuries. There is mention in several accounts of lacerations on his head.

Stupid to let him walk around unattended. He could have had a concusion, where he lost consciousness or not. Also, how severe the injuries were would be relevant to determining the veracity of his account of events.

The more I think about it, the dumber those cops sound. They need a whole new police force.
 
No it's not. I was 6ft and weighed about 145 when I was 16. I was a fit athlete but by no means "very thin".

It depends on each individual. When I first met my husband, he weighed about 150 and he's 5"11". He was very thin and even after 15 years have passed he's about 160 and still thin. In none of the pictures of Trayvon Martin does he look beefy or bulky. He was 17, going through the growing stages of adolescence.
 
I may have missed this and I'm falling behind on the thread, but did anyone catch that the mention of blood and grass stains was not on the original police report but was added later?

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/...ission-votes-no-confidence.html#storylink=cpy



I'm very distrustful of police reports that "remember" key details that just happen to support an officer who finds himself in hot water.

I'm not saying that proves it's false, just that we've been relying on this bit of evidence to show that Zimmerman showed signs of a fight. This appears to have been added later once it became apparent that such evidence was important.


Well, this is the only report I have seen, but the attorney's may have seen something different.

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin Lakes Shooting Initial Report.pdf

It's written at 03:29 (am) on Feb. 27th.

So, if it's been changed and amended, and no note is made accounting for that and explaining why, then it's falsifying and altering an official document, which is a crime.

But, until I see the "original" and the updated, I'll reserve judgement. Based on the SPD's history of fuging and generally screwing things up, I wouldn't doubt it.
 
That can be precisely determined by the 911 calls from the surrounding residences. It is audible on at least one of them.

Absolutely. But, we don't know when exactly the call began, so we don't have any way of timing it out.

Maybe when more info is released.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom