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Santorum gone too far

The first problem I have in such discussion is what exactly is the definition of "porn"? Seems to me how that word is defined and the material to be included in the definition is a rather important matter. Some might define the term far more narrowly than others.
 
RandFan said:
How much observation have you had? Do you understand what skepticism means? Do you understand what anecdotal evidence is? Do you know what confirmation bias is?
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Yes I do. Your evidence was a youtube video. Ben Burch's evidence? His friends in the industry (but I suspect you won't lecture him on sample size). I've heard interviews with porn stars where they go on about the sexual abuse so many of their coworkers experienced. I didn't say all. But my money is on a lot more then the normal population.

I could, like you do, post a link and declare myself victorious. But like I said earlier, there is a link for about any side of an argument you want. I will try and navigate through a lot of and come up with an educated opinion.
 
Corsair 115 said:
The first problem I have in such discussion is what exactly is the definition of "porn"? Seems to me how that word is defined and the material to be included in the definition is a rather important matter. Some might define the term far more narrowly than others.
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Exactly. The girl doing a college issue of playboy isn't the same as the girl trying to set the record for most guys in a 24hr period. Either is the guy that finds pleasure in either material. And either is the effect on society.
 
Caper said:
It mean that I haven't conducted any research studies.... so I can only go by what I observe. Pornographic performers seem more messed up then your average guy on the street.
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Why? Because porn stars do it openly while the rest of us do it in the privacy of our homes?
 
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Caper said:
Yes I do. Your evidence was a youtube video. Ben Burch's evidence? His friends in the industry (but I suspect you won't lecture him on sample size). I've heard interviews with porn stars where they go on about the sexual abuse so many of their coworkers experienced. I didn't say all. But my money is on a lot more then the normal population.

I could, like you do, post a link and declare myself victorious. But like I said earlier, there is a link for about any side of an argument you want. I will try and navigate through a lot of and come up with an educated opinion.
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  • I never declared myself victorious.
  • I provided evidence that many porn stars have said that the molestation meme is nonsense.
  • I don't demand that you accept the evidence.
  • I would be happy to consider any evidence you have.
  • This is a subject that I've been studying for a long time. I was once anti-porn but I found out that most of the claims against porn are specious. I couldn't find evidence for molestation beyond the occasional anecdote.
It's you claim, do you have any evidence?
 
Caper said:
Exactly. The girl doing a college issue of playboy isn't the same as the girl trying to set the record for most guys in a 24hr period. Either is the guy that finds pleasure in either material. And either is the effect on society.
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You know, I know a woman who is an adult film actress and escort who is about as extreme in her own sex life as you could possibly imagine.

She might not do that gangbang on film, but she absolutely has done many of them in her real life.

And, BTW, she came to this out of about the most normal upbringing you could have had.

So, if you think that a mere depiction of this sort of activity is a bad thing, you must want to have my friend locked away?

I reject that there is any effect on society whatsoever from her existence other than a beneficial one.
 
BenBurch said:
You know, I know a woman who is an adult film actress and escort who is about as extreme in her own sex life as you could possibly imagine.

She might not do that gangbang on film, but she absolutely has done many of them in her real life.

And, BTW, she came to this out of about the most normal upbringing you could have had.

So, if you think that a mere depiction of this sort of activity is a bad thing, you must want to have my friend locked away?

I reject that there is any effect on society whatsoever from her existence other than a beneficial one.
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Did I mention anywhere I thought porn stars should be locked away?
 
I remember once (during the porn explosion of the 80's and 90's - thanks to VHS) hearing somebody claim with authority that most prostitutes were abused by their father's, yet most strippers were neglected. He was actually trying to figure out what childhood trauma led to porn.

Since then, I have realized how full of it that guy was, but thought I would bring it up since the myth is now seeming to extend to porn as it did about prostitutes.

The facts are that people who go into porn have as varied as backgrounds as anybody else. Some were probably abused or neglected. Some came from small towns, some from big cities. I even remember being surprised to learn that one popular star from the 80's actually earned an MBA prior to going into porn.
 
Corsair 115 said:
The first problem I have in such discussion is what exactly is the definition of "porn"? Seems to me how that word is defined and the material to be included in the definition is a rather important matter. Some might define the term far more narrowly than others.
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Indeed. I think the most effective way of understanding what Mr. Santorum is proposing is to ask him to ballpark a figure for the number of prosecutors and investigators needed to achieve his goal. Are we talking hundreds or are we talking hundreds of thousands.

I am also fascinated by Mr. Santorum's apparent optimism in this endeveaor. Does Mr. Santorum consider America's Prohibition (1920-1933) more helpful than harmful? I ask because we are now talking about a product that will be hundreds of times more difficult to contain. The unintended consequences could be far darker than this candidate imagines.


ETA: I just realized that Mr. Santorum does not imagine any negative consequences. He really believes that reducing the porn supply will lead more people to religion which will therefore reduce demand for porn. As more and more Americans come to discover God, fewer and fewer pornographers will have a market.
 
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Ladewig said:
ETA: I just realized that Mr. Santorum does not imagine any negative consequences. He really believes that reducing the porn supply will lead more people to religion which will therefore reduce demand for porn. As more and more Americans come to discover God, fewer and fewer pornographers will have a market.
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Well, that does make a convoluted sort of sense. If pornography were banned then churches would be the most accessible avenues to watching people get **********.
 
All Santorum could do is step up prosecutions. That's it. Legal precedent makes it all but impossible for Santorum to ban anything.

Not going to happen folks. The case law is long, wide and deep. No prior restraint. Community standards speaks against federal prohibition. To the extent that community standards are being chipped away it's in the direction of freedom of speech and not censorship.

There's just no current pathway to prohibition.
 
RandFan said:
All Santorum could do is step up prosecutions. That's it. Legal precedent makes it all but impossible for Santorum to ban anything.

Not going to happen folks. The case law is long, wide and deep. No prior restraint. Community standards speaks against federal prohibition. To the extent that community standards are being chipped away it's in the direction of freedom of speech and not censorship.

There's just no current pathway to prohibition.
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You assume that Santorum would uphold the Constitution. I do not assume that.
 
BenBurch said:
You assume that Santorum would uphold the Constitution. I do not assume that.
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He would just prosecute producers distributors under existing law, as would the other two would-be Republican nominees. As they all said in their policy statements. It's nothing more than the status quo ante under the Ashcroft regime, when they prosecuted a couple of producers / distributors of "obscene" material.
 
carlitos said:
He would just prosecute producers distributors under existing law, as would the other two would-be Republican nominees. As they all said in their policy statements. It's nothing more than the status quo ante under the Ashcroft regime, when they prosecuted a couple of producers / distributors of "obscene" material.
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Obama is doing the same.

People they are prosecuting are people I don't care much for, but there should be no prosecutions at all.

I have a friend who served federal time for a gay film he made back in the 80s, so I am sensitive to this issue.
 
What was the point of that entire little molestation tangent? Even if it was true it has nothing to do with the industry.

Would we talk about banning convenience store clerks if it turned out a lot of them were abused as children?
 
carlitos said:
He would just prosecute producers distributors under existing law, as would the other two would-be Republican nominees. As they all said in their policy statements. It's nothing more than the status quo ante under the Ashcroft regime, when they prosecuted a couple of producers / distributors of "obscene" material.
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Well, then before Mr. Santorum throws stones at President Obama, he needs to compare conviction rates of the past few presidents.
 
I'm sitting here reading about the DOT allowing Mexican trucks across our borders. I'm reading about unemployment remaining high as the economy improves. I keep reading about homes being foreclosed. I keep reading about some genuinely troubling developments overseas.

And Santorum is freaking out over how people get their nut off.

Sad.
 
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