Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[triforcharity]

So it is your contention that Zimmerman intended to grab or detain Martin? If so, your evidence is...?

HE CHASED MARTIN! You can subsitute chased for followed at a high rate of speed if it makes you feel any better.

If his intention was to follow, he could have done that from his car.

 

[joseph8th]

That there could be an ongoing debate about this tragedy is disturbing enough.

I've never felt the 2nd Amendment was our most important Constitutional Right. Now more than ever, it is horribly outmoded. We need sensible gun laws.

We need gun control. Or even better, as Chris Rock suggested, a 1000% tax on bullets.

 

[Mumbles]

That's not what Martian's father said, but that's also speculation. I don't know what Zimmerman sounds like when he's screaming and neither do you. The people that are in a position to find out so far support Zimmerman's account. That might change.

I'll cut out the rest of your ridiculous and counter factual speculation, but I'd like to point out that tray no Martin's parents have clearly, and publicly, stated that it was their son's voice screaming for help on the 911 tape, so your first sentence is obviously false.

 

[triforcharity]

I've never felt the 2nd Amendment was our most important Constitutional Right. Now more than ever, it is horribly outmoded. We need sensible gun laws.

We need gun control. Or even better, as Chris Rock suggested, a 1000% tax on bullets.

Well, since that's off topic, I will just address one thing.

Gun laws wouldn't have stopped this shooting.

 

[Dancing David]

It is her right to not get involved. People can and do change their minds. If she did in fact change her mind, then the SPD needs to take that statement. Not bash her in the media.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...tin-witness-tv-report-20120315,0,559932.story

Mary Cutcher, a witnesses to the shooting, told WFTV-Channel 9 in a Wednesday report that police took only a short statement from her, despite repeated attempts to share what she saw at length.

"I said, 'I know this was not self-defense. There was no punching, no hitting going on at the time, no wrestling,'" Cutcher said, adding that she felt the police investigating the shooting "blew us off."

 

[crimresearch]

...Following (or chasing although there isn't evidence of running)...

So even though the 911 calls have been made available, and at 2:08 clearly have the shooter on tape saying "he ran", followed by the eyewitnesses placing the 2 together a distance away,there isn't evidence of running?

How exactly did the shooter make it from his car to the scene in the elapsed time? Ambling? Teleporting?

 

[pgwenthold]

Seems like people are missing the part I highlighted. It's possible Zimmerman is racially biased against black people, but I wouldn't call it plausible.

The reason people are ignoring the part you highlighted is because it is completely meaningless. So his father avers the guy is not a racist. What father ever thinks their child is a racist?

 

[Resume]

.

I surely hope the FDLE steps in, and gets some facts. I mean, real facts. Not what the SPD wants us to hear, or what the SPD thinks we need to hear.

It's calling coverup, 100%.

What's in it for the SPD? I don't get it.

 

[Moss]

The longer I think about this case the more convinced I am that this incident should go to trial, if only to exonerate Zimmerman in case he indeed killed Martin in self defense.

 

[Mumbles]

Yeah, people who take long looks at houses and then keep walking past them obviously intend to burgle them. Everybody knows that.

And the proper response is to call 911 and then chase them with your gun, rather than saying "hello, are you lost?", because it's completely impossible that the person is a new resident or guest who is trying to figure out where he is.

 

[Checkmite]

What's in it for the SPD? I don't get it.

The going away of a bungled investigation.

 

[Resume]

The going away of a bungled investigation.

Before it even started?

 

[crimresearch]

What's in it for the SPD? I don't get it.

Right now, I think the only thing to get is that none of the scenarios make 100% sense.

 

[Moss]

It's just idle speculation but I can see a scenario where Martin does take the first swing at Zimmerman based on the assumption that the guy following him is out to mug him. Which at the same time enforces the belief of Zimmerman that the person he follows was up to no good while justifying his use of deadly force to defend himself.
That would be immensely tragic if true. This tragedy might be due to assumptions on both sides.

 

[sgtbaker]

That is possible, but what group did he mean when he said "they always get away with it?" As the only thing he as getting away with was buying snack food that seems an unlikely group to be concerned about their getting away with it. So likely a young black man in a hooded sweatshirt was put into some category by this man, and it is likely race played a role in that. Dress also likely played a role in that.

I am guessing whoever was behind the recent break-ins that Zimmerman was complaining about. When he first called the police, he wasn't sure if he was black or hispanic. It wasn't until Trayvon approached the car and looked at him that he confirmed he was black.

And he apparently tried to kidnap the kid. He had no right to detain him and it seems he tried to. So resisting kidnapping is now not cause for defense?

We don't know he tried to kidnap him because when the call ended, Zimmerman didn't even know where Martin was. He didn't want to say his address aloud because he said he can't see where he is. The calls didn't pick up again until the physical confrontation.

 

[sgtbaker]

It's just idle speculation but I can see a scenario where Martin does take the first swing at Zimmerman based on the assumption that the guy following him is out to mug him. Which at the same time enforces the belief of Zimmerman that the person he follows was up to no good while justifying his use of deadly force to defend himself.
That would be immensely tragic if true. This tragedy might be due to assumptions on both sides.

That's my guess. In the call, Zimmerman says Martin is holding something in his pocket. Martin is probably trying to keep his iced tea from banging around. Unfortunately, Zimmerman is not a mind reader. Zimmerman sees someone staking out houses, with something in his pocket. Martin doesn't live there and these are rows of town houses. He is probably looking at the houses, looking for his own.

I am also impressed that all these witnesses called 911 and had no idea what was going on. Magically, two weeks later, after the news puts continuous coverage and have layed suspicioun down on the police department, their stories are getting a little more detailed. Eyewitness accounts always change as time passes because imagination starts filling in details. Someone screaming has now become the boy was screaming, despite the fact that seconds after it happened, Zimmerman flat out says, "I was screaming for help and no one came to help."

 

[Moss]

I don't think we can rule out that both screamed for help. Hell, in a way it almost seems likely.

 

[Mumbles]

The reason people are ignoring the part you highlighted is because it is completely meaningless. So his father avers the guy is not a racist. What father ever thinks their child is a racist?

Yeah, it's the "some of my best friends are black" defense. It doesn't help that Zimmerman's father also claims that his son never followed Martin, when the 911 tapes make it clear that this is false.

 

[sgtbaker]

The reason people are ignoring the part you highlighted is because it is completely meaningless. So his father avers the guy is not a racist. What father ever thinks their child is a racist?

The point he was making, though, is the media has gone full force into making this a black/white issue and his father is pointing out that he is hispanic and grew up in a bilingual household. The media seems to want to keep calling him white though because one minority shooting another minority just doesn't rouse the crowd nearly as much. ABC actually has the gaul to ask the Trayvon's father, "If your son was white, do you think he would be alive today?"

 

[Mumbles]

Psst! Psst!

Being Hispanic doesn't mean you aren't white.