Socialism in the US

[Pardalis]

Doesn't every new usage of a word involve a misuse of a word at some point? Do you only use words in their classical sense?

I try not to misuse words.

 

[MG1962]

It's a socialist-capitalist mix, with the government being a major player in industry.

Are you done with the excluded middle fallacies now?

Nice try but no cigar, I was responding to the definition you posted

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

 

[RandFan]

I try not to misuse words.

I understand that. Do you think every usage of a word that isn't the classical one is a misuse of the word?

 

[Pardalis]

It seems that a lot of these guys agree with the GOP talking point that Obama is a socialist, even though he isn't.

They have to legitimize their strawman in order to beat it.

 

[BenBurch]

Nope, it's the very definition of socialism.

Marx saw socialism as an intermediate step towards communism in which there was still unequal distribution of resources and people were still paid for labor.

 

[RandFan]

They have to legitimize their strawman in order to beat it.

What straw man?

 

[RandFan]

Straw men?

Is Obama a socialist?

Is Obamacare socialist?

Is the democratic party socialist?

Are these straw men of the left?

 

[applecorped]

"Commies, pinkos, liberals, leftists, radicals, hippies... That's who supports socialism." It has been demonized to the point that you can't even use the word without generating spittle-emitting rants from some of our more extreme friends on the right.

And?

 

[Undesired Walrus]

It's been a complete failure wherever it's been tried.

Britain in 1945-51. One of the most successful governments in its history.

 

[Pardalis]

Is Obama a socialist?

Is Obamacare socialist?

Is the democratic party socialist?

Are these straw men of the left?

http://www.google.ca/search?q=get+a+life&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.

 

[Tricky]

"Commies, pinkos, liberals, leftists, radicals, hippies... That's who supports socialism." It has been demonized to the point that you can't even use the word without generating spittle-emitting rants from some of our more extreme friends on the right.

And?

And I blame the Beatles.

 

[BenBurch]

Britain in 1945-51. One of the most successful governments in its history.

And fits the definition.

British Rail was all nationalized.

Coal production (National Coal Board) was all nationalized.

Bank of England was nationalized.

Electric power was nationalized (Central Electricity Generating Board)

etc, etc.

 

[RandFan]

http://www.google.ca/search?q=get+a...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Dude, I would be very happy if idiots on the right stopped accusing Obama of being a socialist. I would not give a damn if society decided that any usage of the word that deviates from the classical one is a misuse of the word. I'm simply noting that words evolve and when they do they stop being a misuse and I think socialism may very well have crossed that line.

So, what's with the "get a life"? You are involved in a discussion. I didn't send you a PM. This is a thread about socialism. If you don't want to be involved with the discussion why are you... well, involved? Seriously. Please don't get snarky with me for having a discussion on a discussion forum.

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

I get a bit annoyed when pithy Liberals retort that "policy X is also socialist". I think it is ceding ground to the conservatives by minimising the importance of Social Democrats, who are decidedly not socialists. To toss out the word in such a trigger happy manner renders it useless. Many people in this thread already have demonstrated that people confuse market vs central planning and government vs public ownership when it comes to this issue. And let's not get started on China...

One of the sticky points is that socialists are an extremely heterogenous group in the US. There are worker co-op market socialists and there are old-school Stalinist socialists. There are the Marxist socialists and there are Utopian socialists. They all disagree about if China is socialist, let alone if policy X could be.

It wouldn't bother me if people were being completely sarcastic about it, but some will go on to use the term that way straightforwardly. I don't see the utility in renaming "government action".

 

[Pardalis]

I'm simply noting that words evolve and when they do they stop being a misuse and I think socialism may very well have crossed that line.

No, because some people misuse it we shouldn't accept the new definition, it would be letting idiots dictate language.

So, what's with the "get a life"?

I just don't understand your constant referring to Google search. There's alot of stupid things people say on the internet:

Elvis is alive

9/11 was an inside job

Chupacabra is real

See?

Idiots shouldn't be a reference point. Just because people misuse the word "socialism" doesn't mean we should redefine it.

 

[RandFan]

No, because some people misuse it we shouldn't accept the new definition, it would be letting idiots dictate language.

How is it that you think words evolve?

I just don't understand your constant referring to Google search.

Do you understand what "usage" means in the context of etymology and word definitions?

Idiots shouldn't be a reference point. Just because people misuse the word "socialism" doesn't mean we should redefine it.

I'm not saying we should. I'm saying we don't get to choose if a particular usage becomes a new definition.

 

[MG1962]

I get a bit annoyed when pithy Liberals retort that "policy X is also socialist". I think it is ceding ground to the conservatives by minimising the importance of Social Democrats, who are decidedly not socialists.

However many social democrates will draw on socialist ideas to advance their particular agenda. Things like minimum wage, universal education, even child labour laws were all hallmarks of socialist back in the day and almost universal fought against by those who would consider themselves capitalists

 

[MG1962]

Idiots shouldn't be a reference point. Just because people misuse the word "socialism" doesn't mean we should redefine it.

Keep digging I am sure you can almost still see sunlight in that hole you are digging for yourself

 

[Pardalis]

Keep digging I am sure you can almost still see sunlight in that hole you are digging for yourself

So you agree that Obama is a Socialist?

 

[RandFan]

So you agree that Obama is a Socialist?

Yes. I do, based on one usage of the word. I don't mind people using the word if A.) They are not using at as an epithet. B.) They are consistent in their usage.

We Are All Socialists Now