Supremes to decide if lying is protected speech.

On top of the considerations already mentioned, who gets to determine what is a lie in these political ads and how to distinguish them? If intent to deceive is all it takes, couldn't any spinning of a situation to put your candidate (or yourself) in a favorable light or the opponent in an unfavorable light be considered an intent to deceive?

And what about those statements that are technically true but completely mischaracterize things? I recall one example from around here. One campaign season Jim Talent had an ad that claimed he voted to increase the federal minimum wage x number of times. In fact, though, he was on record as being opposed to federal minimum wage increases, but he voted in favor of huge budget resolutions that often had minimum wage increases that were incorporated as a compromise with his political opponents. Lie or not a lie?

Fraud is a different issue. It's illegal to take people's money through deception. To win a case of fraud you have to prove that that's what happened.
 
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I recently heard an appropriate rephrasing of the old Latin phrase, "Caveat emptor" (let the buyer beware): "Caveat audiens."
 
Alferd_Packer said:
If liars go to jail that would mean the end of fox news.
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. . and a big chunk of government at all levels, and the entire business world, and the entertainment industry, and nearly all of professional sports, most of journalism, and a significant portion of law enforcement, and most lawyers, and . . . .well really virtually everything but poker.

Poker players, of course, are the only honest people.
 
Lowpro said:
Isn't that just perjury?
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Perjury is when you agree beforehand that, if you should lie, that you agree to be prosecuted criminally over it.

It's the descendant of "swearing to God", where you claim that, if you should be lying, it's A-Ok with you that God throw you into Hell.
 
thaiboxerken said:
So is it okay to lie to the public and Congress in order to start a war?
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Define "okay".

That's not the issue the SCOTUS is taking on. If you're asking whether Congress can pass a law to restrict the speech of the POTUS, the answer is no.

And this is another example of "caveat audiens". Congress (and everyone else) bears some responsibility for questioning the word of the president.
 
Beerina said:
Perjury is when you agree beforehand that, if you should lie, that you agree to be prosecuted criminally over it.

It's the descendant of "swearing to God", where you claim that, if you should be lying, it's A-Ok with you that God throw you into Hell.
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Zounds*, that was well-explained!



*From "by His wounds".
 
JoeTheJuggler said:
. . and a big chunk of government at all levels, and the entire business world, and the entertainment industry, and nearly all of professional sports, most of journalism, and a significant portion of law enforcement, and most lawyers, and . . . .well really virtually everything but poker.

Poker players, of course, are the only honest people.
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Fishermen are also very truthful.

As far as this case goes from what I read he didn't lie to get elected. He lied after he was elected.
 
eeyore1954 said:
Fishermen are also very truthful.
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Ha! In poker, bluffing and sandbagging are part of the game. Poker players are honest in that they pay when they lose. That is, when they place or call a bet, it is a promise to cede that money to the winner of the hand, and they keep this promise.

As far as this case goes from what I read he didn't lie to get elected. He lied after he was elected.
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That's not how I read it. The snippet quoted in the OP seems to indicate that he said he won the medal when he was running for office. It says he made the claim as part of his "resume" while running for office. (I presume that's a figurative "resume". It was just how he sold himself to the public while he was running for office.)
 
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In Houston, we once had a Democrat who won a primary by running under the name "Sylvia Garcia" (or something like that) when he was actually a formerly male Anglo transsexual who had been convicted of aggrivated manslaughter. He was running in a heavily Hispanic district, which explains why he won the primary, but the Republicans outed him and he lost the general election (whew!). Again, I say, the voters and the other parties are responsible for paying attention.
 
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thaiboxerken said:
If a lie causes much harm, even death to many people, shouldn't it be illegal?
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Is it the lie that causes harm, or people who are dumb enough to believe it? Should GW Bush be arrested for telling lies about WMDs which led to the deaths of thousands of people? (You don't have to answer, TBK, I know what you think.)

I agree, though, that fraud should be prosecuted.
 
thaiboxerken said:
If a lie causes much harm, even death to many people, shouldn't it be illegal?
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the lie? no. Accountability for the lie? Probably. One is speech, the other is action from the speech. They are different, even if one begets the other.
 
I don't see the difference between fraud and telling lies to get one's goals achieved.
 
thaiboxerken said:
I don't see the difference between fraud and telling lies to get one's goals achieved.
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Fraud is an attempt to get money out of people by deliberately lying about a product, and you have to prove it was deliberate and an attempt to get money. Attempting to get votes by lying is sacrosanct in politics.
 
steve s said:
Tomorrow the Supreme Court is going to hear a case concerning whether lying about military service is protected speech.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/21/justice/scotus-stolen-valor/

Personally, if the person is not trying to profit from their lies, then I don't think it should be illegal. In this case, however, the person was running for public office on his fictitious record which would certainly count as profiting.

Steve S
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If the SCOTUS were to rule that it is illegal to lie when one runs for public office, then half of Congress would be locked up.

Hmmm, might not be such a bad thing ;)
 
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