Are sexists just sexually frustrated?

[AvalonXQ]

I don't even want to know what their logic is for always voting "not guilty." I'm sure it will just anger me further.

I'm going to tell you anyway - the logic is that the entire system is corrupt, from the police gathering evidence to the judge that permits in the room to the law itself that prevents the accused from putting on an effective defense. Because you cannot trust the system itself to present accurate evidence and argue it fairly, the only way to assure that an innocent person does not go to jail is to vote "not guilty" every time.

In fact, I agree that if his premises are true, his conclusion does follow. If the entire justice system is geared toward putting the accused in jail regardless of actual innocence, then voting "not guilty" every time is probably the right thing to do.

 

[KingMerv00]

I quickly browsed through the article (and the other 5 sexy cartoons article linked at the start), and it turns out that in this person´s vocabulary "sexism" means "sexualisation". It would help if he used the same vocabulary as the rest of English-speaking world.

"Sexism" means "genderisation", something like "women should not work outside of home / become priests / have a right to vote".

That's a pretty narrow definition (that incidentally wouldn't apply to men). It assumes that discrimination in more subtle ways isn't really sexism.

So this guy has something against sexualisation of women.

The problem is that SEX is the default and almost exclusive setting for ALL female characters in comics. Essentially every female character is falling out of her impractical, skin tight, 5-sizes-too-small, braless uniform and pose in a ways that make gynocologists redundant.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with showing that women are sexual or even sexualizing them at times. If you didn't, you wouldn't give an accurate representation of humanity. In fact, it would be another type of sexism. That doesn't mean every single bloody character on one side of the gender divide should be portrayed as a reject from the cling-wrap stripper factory.

A lost cause to begin with.

Look back a mere 100-150 years. Women weren't hypersexualized in media then. In fact, it was just the opposite. "Lay back, and think of England."

Social attitudes are far more flexible than you think.

Sexy women are so sexy that men don´t want to resist them. Two comic books on the shelf, if the sexier of them sells better, then sexy books is what the publishers will start producing. Two teen movies released, if one of them shows topless girls and the bushradio makes it a huge box office success, and the other movie shows nothing and its tickets sell worse, then showing a few topless girls here and there becomes the norm in Hollywood teenager movies.

The fact that you can make money on sexism (male or female) doesn't say anything about whether or not it should be encouraged. Appeals to racism, homophobia, and xenophobia can all reap rewards for those who invoke it.

 

[bookitty]

Sex is like money. When you have it, you hardly think about it; when you don't, you think of nothing else. Goes to show that Kant's statement that happiness is merely release from pain, while not actually true, has a point.


I, for one, have never met anybody like that. I don't know anybody who ever told me he met anyone like that. The racist, sexist white male is, I believe, a myth of the same sort of the ball-busting feminist and the rich welfare queen. Extreme cases exists, for sure, but not only are they atypical, nobody in the group which is supposed to "admire" such people treats them with anything but contempt.

Well, you're hardly the target audience, right?

 

[KingMerv00]

I'm going to tell you anyway - the logic is that the entire system is corrupt, from the police gathering evidence to the judge that permits in the room to the law itself that prevents the accused from putting on an effective defense. Because you cannot trust the system itself to present accurate evidence and argue it fairly, the only way to assure that an innocent person does not go to jail is to vote "not guilty" every time.

In fact, I agree that if his premises are true, his conclusion does follow. If the entire justice system is geared toward putting the accused in jail regardless of actual innocence, then voting "not guilty" every time is probably the right thing to do.

Please tell me you don't agree with his premises.

 

[KingMerv00]

Is it possible to get a jury verdict nullified if it turns out one of them is a wacko activist who proclaims a certain verdict irrespective of evidence presented?

I'm pretty sure the answer is "no" in this case. Feel free to double check.

The judge does have the authority to overrule a jury's guilty verdict if they think the jury reached their conclusion without any rational basis. On the other hand, an acquittal is a different story because of the protections against double jeopardy.

 

[Ron_Tomkins]

I like sex.

 

[truethat]

Sex is like money. When you have it, you hardly think about it; when you don't, you think of nothing else. Goes to show that Kant's statement that happiness is merely release from pain, while not actually true, has a point.



I, for one, have never met anybody like that. I don't know anybody who ever told me he met anyone like that. The racist, sexist white male is, I believe, a myth of the same sort of the ball-busting feminist and the rich welfare queen. Extreme cases exists, for sure, but not only are they atypical, nobody in the group which is supposed to "admire" such people treats them with anything but contempt.

They won't let you away with that. Believe me. But what I think you mean is that the racist sexist white male is as rare as the ball busting feminist, which is apparently not that rare after all.

 

[jiggeryqua]

The problem is that SEX is the default and almost exclusive setting for ALL female characters in comics. Essentially every female character is falling out of her impractical, skin tight, 5-sizes-too-small, braless uniform and pose in a ways that make gynocologists redundant. [...] That doesn't mean every single bloody character on one side of the gender divide should be portrayed as a reject from the cling-wrap stripper factory.

I thought we tried a little harder round here to avoid confirmation bias. Every single sexualised female character is sexualised!!!1!! Superman's mom and Spiderman's Aunt May, less so. Well, Aunt May never did much for me but YMMV. That's just off the top of my head, I'm sure there are others. There may well be more sexualised female characters than not, but see JJM 777's remarks. The world likes sex. It likes its male comic characters to have rippling muscles and/or power & wealth too. Sexy.

 

[bookitty]

I thought we tried a little harder round here to avoid confirmation bias. Every single sexualised female character is sexualised!!!1!! Superman's mom and Spiderman's Aunt May, less so. Well, Aunt May never did much for me but YMMV. That's just off the top of my head, I'm sure there are others. There may well be more sexualised female characters than not, but see JJM 777's remarks. The world likes sex. It likes its male comic characters to have rippling muscles and/or power & wealth too. Sexy.

Well yeah, except that male characters never fight, walk, stand, or sleep in contorted potions. It's very difficult as a female comic reader to identify with a hero who must have both tit and ass in every single frame regardless of physically impossible it is.

A small sampling of examples:
http://eschergirls.tumblr.com/

 

[Weird Science]

Well, you're hardly the target audience, right?

True, but, on the other hand, I am the target audience for the ball-busting feminist, I suppose -- and I haven't met her, or anybody who had met her, either. For that matter I lived many years in a poor neighborhood; I've met lots of people on welfare, and never the fabled "welfare queen".

Again, I'm not denying such people exist, but they are far less typical, let alone celebrated, than some people would like us to believe. I mean, you're a feminist -- what is your view about someone who thinks all men as potential rapists? You surely don't hold her up as an ideal of what feminism is all about, do you?

 

[bookitty]

True, but, on the other hand, I am the target audience for the ball-busting feminist, I suppose -- and I haven't met her, or anybody who had met her, either. For that matter I lived many years in a poor neighborhood; I've met lots of people on welfare, and never the fabled "welfare queen".

Again, I'm not denying such people exist, but they are far less typical, let alone celebrated, than some people would like us to believe. I mean, you're a feminist -- what is your view about someone who thinks all men as potential rapists? You surely don't hold her up as an ideal of what feminism is all about, do you?

I'm not really sure how to answer that, except maybe with a pitchfork.

 

[KingMerv00]

Hmm...jiggeryqua exhibited some nasty behavior in another thread with a similar topic. I'm willing to give him a second chance if he keeps the snark to a dull roar.

I thought we tried a little harder round here to avoid confirmation bias. Every single sexualised female character is sexualised!!!1!!

Well played sir. You mixed in "1" with the exclamation points to make me look like a total newb. Man, I feel pwned.

Anywho...

Speaking of confirmation bias, I used the qualifiers "almost" and "essentially" in my language. Looks like my failure to include them in every case somehow managed to confuse you even in context. I'd say an fair-minded person would understand that I'm aware of exceptions.

Superman's mom and Spiderman's Aunt May, less so. Well, Aunt May never did much for me but YMMV. That's just off the top of my head, I'm sure there are others.

The ancillary, octogenarian, non-heroic examples that prove the rule.

There may well be more sexualised female characters than not...

"May well be?" You aren't really going to fight me on this are you?

...but see JJM 777's remarks. The world likes sex.

I did see those remarks. I also responded to those remarks. They were snipped by you.

It likes its male comic characters to have rippling muscles...

Are you honestly suggesting that the presentation and poses of men's "rippling muscles" is an analogous to the panty shots and throat to crotch necklines of female characters?

 

[truethat]

I thought we tried a little harder round here to avoid confirmation bias. Every single sexualised female character is sexualised!!!1!! Superman's mom and Spiderman's Aunt May, less so. Well, Aunt May never did much for me but YMMV. That's just off the top of my head, I'm sure there are others. There may well be more sexualised female characters than not, but see JJM 777's remarks. The world likes sex. It likes its male comic characters to have rippling muscles and/or power & wealth too. Sexy.

It doesn't count when the male superheros are sexualized. Get it straight, women are always the victims and men are always the perpetrators.

The whole concept of superheros is the virile male or female. So each of the things associated with that are enhanced. I suppose it would be better and more balanced if they had super schlongs or something. But then again that's always taboo. And men have huge chests as well as the women. But I guess some people consider a woman's boobs the equivalent with the male penis. I have no idea why. But both the male and female superheros have over sized chests and are usually handsome and sexy looking.

 

[bookitty]

<snip>

The ancillary, octogenarian, non-heroic examples that prove the rule.

 

[tyr_13]

While I agree that there are a lot of stupid sex things with female characters in comics, much more so than with men, they do happen to the men in comics too and many of the examples might be stupid, but not stupid for sexist reasons. The skin tight costumes come to mind. That's pretty stupid vacuum sealed tight for both men and women in comics. Note that I'm talking about being skin tight, not about skimpy in other ways where the female characters generally have it far worse.

[/derail]

 

[bookitty]

While I agree that there are a lot of stupid sex things with female characters in comics, much more so than with men, they do happen to the men in comics too and many of the examples might be stupid, but not stupid for sexist reasons. The skin tight costumes come to mind. That's pretty stupid vacuum sealed tight for both men and women in comics. Note that I'm talking about being skin tight, not about skimpy in other ways where the female characters generally have it far worse.

[/derail]

Honestly, all I want from a female superhero (or better supervillian) is a fighting stance I can see myself doing. I box for fun and I'm not half bad. Pointing my butt at a sparing partner doesn't seem particularly effective.

There's a time and place for exaggerated sexuality. If Catwoman wants to go all lordosis when she's tussling with Batman on a roof, that makes perfect sense. They have a pretty raunchy history. If she's making the same move while swinging on a rope to get to the next rooftop, it just doesn't work. Either she's so obsessed with maintaining her image as a sexual object that she never drops the pose, or she has some severe deformities. Neither one is empathetic.

 

[tyr_13]

Honestly, all I want from a female superhero (or better supervillian) is a fighting stance I can see myself doing. I box for fun and I'm not half bad. Pointing my butt at a sparing partner doesn't seem particularly effective.

There's a time and place for exaggerated sexuality. If Catwoman wants to go all lordosis when she's tussling with Batman on a roof, that makes perfect sense. They have a pretty raunchy history. If she's making the same move while swinging on a rope to get to the next rooftop, it just doesn't work. Either she's so obsessed with maintaining her image as a sexual object that she never drops the pose, or she has some severe deformities. Neither one is empathetic.

Completely agreed!

 

[KingMerv00]

Honestly, all I want from a female superhero (or better supervillian) is a fighting stance I can see myself doing.

I know you are being poetic here but you have to be careful. Someone will satisfy that hyperbolic request and declare victory.

Look at Jigg, for example. He apparently thought I believed ALL female characters in comics were sexualized (even though it was clear I didn't). He pops back with a semi-serious response (Ma Kent, and Aunt May of all people) and felt proud of himself. Sure he didn't prove a damn thing but its the sort of thing that derails threads.

 

[Weird Science]

I'm not really sure how to answer that, except maybe with a pitchfork.

Er, my remark about the ball-busting feminist?

On second thought...

Honestly, all I want from a female superhero (or better supervillian) is a fighting stance I can see myself doing.

I didn't know you could shoot lasers from your eyes or turn time backwards, so I suppose Superman is taboo?

 

[truethat]

While I agree that there are a lot of stupid sex things with female characters in comics, much more so than with men, they do happen to the men in comics too and many of the examples might be stupid, but not stupid for sexist reasons. The skin tight costumes come to mind. That's pretty stupid vacuum sealed tight for both men and women in comics. Note that I'm talking about being skin tight, not about skimpy in other ways where the female characters generally have it far worse.

[/derail]

How do men definitely have it better? This is what we were talking about in the date rape thread.

Why is it that when Big Beefy Batman meets sexy purring Catwoman we only see Catwoman as being sexualized?

Why is her taunting him not a mockery of his sexuality? Why is it automatically that when a male and female have a sexually tense moment she is being objectified but he is not? Quite often the "sexy" female is an empowered female character, often the Villian or enemy of the superhero and the superhero is brought to his knees.

Just consider the scene in Superman where he's thrown in a pool and rescued by Miss Teschmacher and she makes him kiss her first. I mean come on.