The Incredible odds of fulfilled bible prophecy

DOC:

As both Akhenaten and Craig B have pointed out coins minted during their lives, as well as inscriptions from their time, attest to the existence of many people who lived in ancient times. This is true not only of Alexander the Great, but of Antiochus Epiphanes, Cleopatra and many Roman emperors. In the case of the latter, we have particularly good documentation, because the Romans were into a non-idealized realism. Thus we can tell from the profile on a coin bearing the image of Nero that he had a double chin. We also have busts of the emperors, also rendered with unflattering realism. Julius Caesar had a receding hairline, rather pinched features and grim set to his mouth. We also know he was clean shaven. In contrast, Marcus Aurelius had a full beard. Like Nero, both Vespasian and Titus had double chins. However, while they looked stout but firm, like a pair of fire plugs, Nero's features look flabby.

In contrast, we have no idea what Jesus looked like. Early Roman representations of him show him as beardless. Yet, as a first century Jew, he probably had a full beard. The tall, thin, austere looking Jesus of later Catholic representations and the Protestant Jesus with light brown hair are images of convention. We have no idea is he was tall, short, thin, fat or medium in build and height.
 
TimCallahan said:
DOC:

As both Akhenaten and Craig B have pointed out coins minted during their lives, as well as inscriptions from their time, attest to the existence of many people who lived in ancient times. This is true not only of Alexander the Great, but of Antiochus Epiphanes, Cleopatra and many Roman emperors. In the case of the latter, we have particularly good documentation, because the Romans were into a non-idealized realism. Thus we can tell from the profile on a coin bearing the image of Nero that he had a double chin. We also have busts of the emperors, also rendered with unflattering realism. Julius Caesar had a receding hairline, rather pinched features and grim set to his mouth. We also know he was clean shaven. In contrast, Marcus Aurelius had a full beard. Like Nero, both Vespasian and Titus had double chins. However, while they looked stout but firm, like a pair of fire plugs, Nero's features look flabby.

In contrast, we have no idea what Jesus looked like. Early Roman representations of him show him as beardless. Yet, as a first century Jew, he probably had a full beard. The tall, thin, austere looking Jesus of later Catholic representations and the Protestant Jesus with light brown hair are images of convention. We have no idea is he was tall, short, thin, fat or medium in build and height.
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Although, I'd say it would be a safe bet that if he did exist, he'd look far more like Yassir Arafat than Brad Pitt.
 
dafydd said:
Nobody has ever claimed that Alexander The Great was the son of a god...
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From Wikipedia:

Several legends surround Alexander's birth and childhood.[9] According to the ancient Greek biographer Plutarch, Olympias, on the eve of the consummation of her marriage to Philip, dreamed that her womb was struck by a thunder bolt, causing a flame that spread "far and wide" before dying away. Some time after the wedding, Philip is said to have seen himself, in a dream, securing his wife's womb with a seal engraved with a lion's image.[10] Plutarch offered a variety of interpretations of these dreams: that Olympias was pregnant before her marriage, indicated by the sealing of her womb; or that Alexander's father was Zeus. Ancient commentators were divided about whether the ambitious Olympias promulgated the story of Alexander's divine parentage, variously claiming that she had told Alexander, or that she dismissed the suggestion as impious.

Well, someone has!
 
Craig B said:
When references to Jesus do start to appear, they are full of supernatural nonsense about a divine miracle worker. We have stuff like that about Alexander too, but nobody believes a word of it!
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This is an important point.

Sometimes it seems as if religious apologists are locked into believing every single account of a person, or none of them at all. Realty tends to be somewhat less black-and-white. A rather pleasant shade of mauve, actually...
 
Wolrab said:
Uh oh. Looking at the coin, I see it has the date 333 BC stamped on it.
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I'm not so sure about that. According to the British Museum it was minted after about 305 BCE by Lysimachus, one of Alexander’s generals who succeeded him after his (Alexander's) death in 323 BCE.


Read more here.


For examples of coins minted during Alexander's lifetime, read this.
 
Akhenaten said:
I'm not so sure about that. According to the British Museum it was minted after about 305 BCE by Lysimachus, one of Alexander’s generals who succeeded him after his (Alexander's) death in 323 BCE.
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This, then, is a case of a companion of Alexander attesting to his existence, just as surely as if Lysimachus had set down his recollections in a book. The only difference? Papyrus moulders away, while precious metal may remain unchanged for millennia.
 
Craig B said:
This, then, is a case of a companion of Alexander attesting to his existence, just as surely as if Lysimachus had set down his recollections in a book. The only difference? Papyrus moulders away, while precious metal may remain unchanged for millennia.
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Well, the big difference in the context of the topic of this thread is that Lysimachus actually was a companion of Alexander - a claim that is not supported for any of the chroniclers of the life of the alleged Jesus.
 
Akhenaten said:
I'm not so sure about that. According to the British Museum it was minted after about 305 BCE by Lysimachus, one of Alexander’s generals who succeeded him after his (Alexander's) death in 323 BCE.


Read more here.


For examples of coins minted during Alexander's lifetime, read this.
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Did the mighty Pharaoh miss the joke? A date printed as 333 BC? Get it? Wink wink nudge nudge say no more!
 
Craig B said:
When references to Jesus do start to appear, they are full of supernatural nonsense about a divine miracle worker. We have stuff like that about Alexander too, but nobody believes a word of it!
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But Alexander's words never motivated someone like Thomas Jefferson to publish a 60+ page book on the words and teachings of Alexander (or Julius Caesar who was also considered a god by many). Jefferson did publish such a book on Jesus Christ and translated it into 4 languages himself. He described the teachings of Jesus as the greatest morality he has ever read thus higher than Aristotle, Plato, and Socrates, whom Jefferson also read (probably in Greek). Yes, he was not a true Christian in that age of Deism but he held the morality of Jesus higher than anyone else he read.
 
DOC said:
But Alexander's words never motivated someone like Thomas Jefferson to publish a 60+ page book on the words and teachings of Alexander (or Julius Caesar who was also considered a god by many). Jefferson did publish such a book on Jesus Christ and translated it into 4 languages himself. He described the teachings of Jesus as the greatest morality he has ever read thus higher than Aristotle, Plato, and Socrates, whom Jefferson also read (probably in Greek). Yes, he was not a true Christian in that age of Deism but he held the morality of Jesus higher than anyone else he read.
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What in the name of Horus does this gibberish have to do with the topic?
 
DOC said:
I tried for a few minutes but I couldn't find what these alleged fragments say? So the evidence at this point in this thread says there is no contemporary writings about Alexander the Great, the man whom history says conquered much of the world and even the Holy Land. Why no contemporary sources for such a great world conqueror??
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Haven't you heard? They named a city after him.
 
Akhenaten said:
What in the name of Horus does this gibberish have to do with the topic?
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If someone like Craig B has the right to compare Jesus and Alexander in a derogatory way, then I have the right to differentiate them.
 
DOC said:
But Alexander's words never motivated someone like Thomas Jefferson to publish a 60+ page book on the words and teachings of Alexander (or Julius Caesar who was also considered a god by many). Jefferson did publish such a book on Jesus Christ and translated it into 4 languages himself. He described the teachings of Jesus as the greatest morality he has ever read thus higher than Aristotle, Plato, and Socrates, whom Jefferson also read (probably in Greek). Yes, he was not a true Christian in that age of Deism but he held the morality of Jesus higher than anyone else he read.
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Brown flag!
 
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