Derren Brown's screaming stooges

[Azrael 5]

JA explain this :
Derren Brown repeatedly states he doesnt use stooges,on TV ,off Tv, in his books,blog and interviews. He is quoted as stating "It's artistically repugnant"
That is a lot of egg on face if he is lying. It would be damaging to his career as he also says.

.... I have never used stooges, never had people just ‘playing along’. It’s an artistic travesty and plain lazy.

http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2009/05/derrens-thoughts-on-those-five-facts/
Im sur eI'll get accusations of being a fan boy and worse but I believe him.

 

[3point14]

I'm just saying that "she's an actress" is evidence of nothing, without further evidence that she's an actress who was acting in that scene.

I agree entirely.

My bet is that others, in order to uphold their tenuous positions, will not.

 

[tuoni]

You'll see that ITV ("Channel 4") is listed in Equity's list of union employers.

Yes, if you follow that link, you will indeed see that ITV is listed.

But ITV and Channel 4 are two different companies.

In fact, if you have even a cursory glance at ITV or Channel 4's websites, that much is immediately obvious.

In case you wish to further argue this point, I will point you at Channel 4's Corporate "About Us" page where it says the following in the very second paragraph (my bolding):

Channel 4 was launched on 2nd November 1982 with a unique business model, under the Broadcasting Act 1981. We are funded predominantly by advertising and sponsorship, but unlike other broadcasters such as ITV, Channel 4 is not shareholder owned. Channel 4 is a statutory corporation, independent of Government, and governed by a unitary board made up of executive and non-executive directors, who are responsible for ensuring that Channel 4 fulfils its remit and delivers its financial responsibilities.

 

[steenkh]

Do you have any evidence that such a thing is even possible?

Do I need evidence that magicians can do tricks? As a matter of fact, hypnosis would be one easy way to do it. If DB had previously hypnotised her she could well react in a similar fashion even when she is not under hypnosis. But there would probably be other ways to achieve the same effect without hypnosis, if DB had time to condition her.

Do you have an alternate explanation that fits the evidence and makes more sense?

Yes, I just explained above. Obviously, it also makes sense that she could be paid to act the scene, but there is no reason to believe that she is. Her main qualification seems to be that she is a woo-woo. If somebody could find out that in real life she is not a woo-woo, you would have a much stronger argument that she was paid.

People keep on saying that, but nobody has yet come forth with an alternate explanation that makes any sense.

Or perhaps you just do not want to listen to arguments that go counter to the one you prefer?

 

[Azrael 5]

Looks like John Albert has put the whole forum on ignore .

 

[lane99]

Hello, Squeegee

I've just checked the intro of the episode in question and you're right...

Agreed. Yes, I am.

...I didn't, however, lose the bet that I made for any amount of money...

Agreed. No, you didn't. That was a separate bet.

...you didn't specify an amount of money before you made yours...

Agreed. I didn't.

...So I think it reasonable that your bet have the same terms as mine...I'll send you a tenner.

Point of order: the term of your challenge was not 10pounds, but any amount of money I chose, with ten being the minimum. (Both "any" and "minimum" were emphasized by you at the time).

But, that just as an aside. You don't want to quibble, nor do I. Ten it is. Agreed.


...and good on you for stepping up to the plate, Squeegee Beckenheim. You're a breathe a fresh air in here.

 

[Azrael 5]

Are we all done here? The OP has left the building and seems John Albert has followed him.

 

[Sledge]

Looks like it's all over until the OP starts another thread about the same thing in a few months time.

 

[mutile]

does anyone have a problem with Derren claiming he has never had people just ‘playing along’?

seems like something he couldn't possibly know unless he really can read minds.

 

[AdMan]

does anyone have a problem with Derren claiming he has never had people just ‘playing along’?

seems like something he couldn't possibly know unless he really can read minds.

Where does he claim that?

 

[mutile]

Azrael 5 post top of page #321

 

[Azrael 5]

does anyone have a problem with Derren claiming he has never had people just ‘playing along’?

seems like something he couldn't possibly know unless he really can read minds.

I assume its not as literal as that. I assuming he means actors/stooges.

 

[Hitch]

does anyone have a problem with Derren claiming he has never had people just ‘playing along’?

seems like something he couldn't possibly know unless he really can read minds.

Some of Derren Brown's subjects may be, as you describe, "just playing along." But, interpreting Derren Brown's statements, doing so because they choose to, not because they've been coached on what's expected or given a script to follow. There is mastery in creating an act that creates the illusion of some kind of mental control with an unprepared subject. It's not supernatural powers, but it is genuine artistry of the performer. You seem to think Brown presents himself as having magical powers and by pointing out that he doesn't we will be disillusioned. We know he doesn't. We admire the talent he shows in faking it.

 

[mutile]

ok, I guess I was thinking too literally.

 

[silver birch]

Some of Derren Brown's subjects may be, as you describe, "just playing along." But, interpreting Derren Brown's statements, doing so because they choose to, not because they've been coached on what's expected or given a script to follow. There is mastery in creating an act that creates the illusion of some kind of mental control with an unprepared subject. It's not supernatural powers, but it is genuine artistry of the performer. You seem to think Brown presents himself as having magical powers and by pointing out that he doesn't we will be disillusioned. We know he doesn't. We admire the talent he shows in faking it.

so, that means Ben, the stooge in the casino stunt, was only playing along and not actually complying with a command given under hypnosis when he withdrew £5000 from his bank, handed it to DB and pretended to have amnesia of the event. It also means that when DB phoned him to tell him what had happened he was lying when he said he did not know £5OOO pounds was missing from his account.
or,
the whole thing is totaly contrived, he did not take any money out, and when he was on the phone with the curtains open he knew the camera was there and it was all an act for the unreal reality show about DB's phoney hypnotism.
and,
the program is an insult to viewer's intelligence.

 

[John Albert]

I've been busy lately, so you'll see that I hadn't posted at all on this forum in the last couple days.

Quick refresher: I haven't claimed that I have definitive evidence that Magda Rodriguez was a stooge. I've clearly stated that I don't have a script, paycheck, etc. However none of that is necessary to prove that she (a trained, professional union card-carrying actress) was on Derren Brown's show performing a nuanced "voodoo doll" routine, despite his disclaimer that no actors were used.

That being the case, we know that Derren Brown lied in his disclaimer for that show, wherein he claimed that no actors or stooges were used. If he lied about the one, then it stands to reason that it's not unlikely he was also lying about the other. Now, in light of that evidence and given the nature of some of his presentations, I think it's not unreasonable to surmise that the "no stooges" claim is also just a lie. Stooges are, after all, well-known to be a common component of hypnotist and mentalist acts. The definitive text on mentalism (Tony Corinda's 13 Steps To Mentalism) specifically endorses and describes their use in performances, and Derren Brown is also known to lie when publicly discussing his act. As I said, I'm not claiming to have 100% conclusive evidence, only that it's the most reasonable explanation given what is already known, and the lack of a plausible alternate explanation.

I'm not afraid of being wrong and will gladly admit that I am, if somebody convinces me otherwise. I wouldn't even ask for 100% conclusive evidence, but simply a plausible alternate explanation good enough to outweigh the evidence we've already seen that Derren Brown most certainly used at least one professional actor for a dramatic "hypnosis" routine, and that he most certainly lies regarding his act.

Besides the "Voodoo Doll" performance, many of Derren Brown's other tricks (especially his latest work) appear to rely on actors in staged situations. The "Casino" bit that silver birch mentioned is one such example. There's plenty of circumstantial evidence of this if you know what to look for. For example, consider the fact that cameras must be in place for every shot (no matter how improbable), and microphones must be in place to catch all dialogue. We can go ahead and discuss the various specific instances if you like, but if you guys are only going to continue insisting that I provide evidence for all my points while avoiding questions and offering nothing by way of backing up your own assertions, than we can just quit right now.

From what I've seen, at this point Derren Brown is no longer even doing "stage magic" anymore. His latest shows simply use heavy editing and the pretense of "hypnosis" to add a mystical impression to stock "reality show" performances, similar to many other TV shows with various levels of scripting and pre-planning that rely on amateur and little-known actors.

 

[Sledge]

No one cares, John. You can't back up anything you say, so why bother saying it?

 

[John Albert]

No one cares, John. You can't back up anything you say, so why bother saying it?

Spoken like a credulous believer with no curiosity to question anything that might indicate otherwise.

I've backed up pretty much everything I've said, and honestly admitted when I couldn't back something up. Contrast that with you guys, whose only "evidence" has been Derren Brown's own words (some of which have been demonstrated to be lies).

 

[Azrael 5]

I've been busy lately, so you'll see that I hadn't posted at all on this forum in the last couple days.

Quick refresher: I haven't claimed that I have definitive evidence that Magda Rodriguez was a stooge. I've clearly stated that I don't have a script, paycheck, etc. However none of that is necessary to prove that she (a trained, professional union card-carrying actress) was on Derren Brown's show performing a nuanced "voodoo doll" routine, despite his disclaimer that no actors were used.

Quick refresher .You talk garbage.
The only piece of proof/evidence is that her job is an actress and that she was on Derren Brown show.Thats it. No ifs buts,maybes blah blahs.

That being the case, we know that Derren Brown lied in his disclaimer for that show, wherein he claimed that no actors or stooges were used. If he lied about the one, then it stands to reason that it's not unlikely he was also lying about the other

"No actors or stooges are used "means they aren't prepped,scripted performing a role.Even you must understand that.

Now, in light of that evidence and given the nature of some of his presentations, I think it's not unreasonable to surmise that the "no stooges" claim is also just a lie.

Depiote hi srepeated quotes where says he doesnt use them and how strongly he feels? Remeber "career suicide"?

Stooges are, after all, well-known to be a common component of hypnotist and mentalist acts. The definitive text on mentalism (Tony Corinda's 13 Steps To Mentalism) specifically endorses and describes their use in performances

So that means ALL must use them? Because it's a practice that can be used?

And Derren Brown is also known to lie when publicly discussing his act. As I said, I'm not claiming to have 100% conclusive evidence, only that it's the most reasonable explanation given what is already known, and the lack of a plausible alternate explanation.

Your a magician are you? You know of no other possible way to perform these effects I take it?

I'm not afraid of being wrong and will gladly admit that I am, if somebody convinces me otherwise. I wouldn't even ask for 100% conclusive evidence, but simply a plausible alternate explanation good enough to outweigh the evidence we've already seen that Derren Brown most certainly used at least one professional actor for a dramatic "hypnosis" routine, and that he most certainly lies regarding his act.

You provide proof for your claims not the other way around.

Besides the "Voodoo Doll" performance, many of Derren Brown's other tricks (especially his latest work) appear to rely on actors in staged situations.

And David Copperfiel dappeared to fly.Yes or No?

The "Casino" bit that silver birch mentioned is one such example. There's plenty of circumstantial evidence of this if you know what to look for. For example, consider the fact that cameras must be in place for every shot (no matter how improbable), and microphones must be in place to catch all dialogue. We can go ahead and discuss the various specific instances if you like, but if you guys are only going to continue insisting that I provide evidence for all my points while avoiding questions and offering nothing by way of backing up your own assertions, than we can just quit right now.

You think none of the guys friends were in on it? You never seen a hidden camera show before? Microphones in places and cameras where you cant believe they could be?

From what I've seen, at this point Derren Brown is no longer even doing "stage magic" anymore. His latest shows simply use heavy editing and the pretense of "hypnosis" to add a mystical impression to stock "reality show" performances, similar to many other TV shows with various levels of scripting and pre-planning that rely on amateur and little-known actors.

When you have some evidence for this do let us know. Otherwise that empty vessel needs a lid.
Why you think an actress is needed for that routine, and none of the umpteen others where he makes people seemingly do incredulous things is yet to be explained by you.

 

[Sledge]

Spoken like a credulous believer with no curiosity to question anything that might indicate otherwise.

Trying to pretend it's everyone else who isn't skeptical isn't a great debating technique. You've failed to support your claims and yet cling to them. Now you're upset that everyone else refuses to accept that you saying something is sufficient proof that it is true. So congratulations! You've joined the ranks of every religious loon, every dowser, every psychic, every woo who's ever pitched up on this forum to insist that they're right.