Merged "Iron-rich spheres" - scienctific explanation?

Christopher7 said:
I don't have to prove it, it's not my "claim". The RJ Lee Group studied the dust and that was their conclusion. You can go into denial if you want but you don't know better than they do.
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Who on Jref disagreed with anything JR Lee wrote??????? we are disagreeing with what you assert they mean't......You can go into denial if you want but you don't know better than they do.:D
 
Christopher7 said:
Not in modern fire protected high rise buildings.
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Well that's just foolish.

madrid_remains.jpg


Not to mention the fact that the reason you don't hear about it as often, is because usually officer fires are extinguished quickly, and there IS SFRM applied.

Imagine that.

You should stick to what you know.
 
sheeplesnshills said:
Who on Jref disagreed with anything JR Lee wrote??????? we are disagreeing with what you assert they mean't......You can go into denial if you want but you don't know better than they do.:D
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Do you agree with this?

[FONT=&quot]iron and lead were melted during the WTC event, producing spherical metallic particles. [/FONT]
 
Christopher7 said:
You and Plague did not read what I was responding to. The firefighters did not think the TT would collapse or they would not have gone up to fight the fires.
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Bull ****. Firefighters would have still gone up, no matter what. You're foolish to think that the FDNY would sit back and watch thousands of people die, because of a possibility. We do it every single ******* day! Every single fire a firefighter encounters, could lead to a collapse. However, we STILL go in to extinguish the flames, and save lives.

Don't EVER try that **** with me again. You basically called the FDNY a bunch of chicken- **** cowards.

Go pound sand.
 
superlogicalthinker said:
There were many news reports that day of fires cooling because of the smoke getting "lighter and lighter". I am no fire expert, but I'm pretty sure that smoke indicates an oxygen starved fire and means it's going out, which would mean(I would think) it's getting cooler.

So the type of smoke does tell the approximate temperature of a fire according to this news report at 0:21 sec of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d5iIoCiI8g&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
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You're citing a NEWS REPORT for scientific matters?

LOL!!

Yeah, go here.



Dave Dodson is an expert in firefighter operations and fireground safety.
 
triforcharity said:
Bull ****. Firefighters would have still gone up, no matter what. You're foolish to think that the FDNY would sit back and watch thousands of people die, because of a possibility. We do it every single ******* day! Every single fire a firefighter encounters, could lead to a collapse. However, we STILL go in to extinguish the flames, and save lives.

Don't EVER try that **** with me again. You basically called the FDNY a bunch of chicken- **** cowards.

Go pound sand.
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No kidding. What a vile human being. I'm ashamed to be of the same species.
 
Christopher7 said:
I don't have to prove it, it's not my "claim". The RJ Lee Group studied the dust and that was their conclusion. You can go into denial if you want but you don't know better than they do.
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RJ Lee says that the iron spheres come from the effect of heat of the fires on iron. So therefore you agree with them that the source was the heat of the fires, I see. Case solved, from your point of view: you believe it was the heat of the fires. Welcome to the non-"government did it" gang!
 
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Christopher7 said:
Do you agree with this?

[FONT=&quot]iron and lead were melted during the WTC event, producing spherical metallic particles. [/FONT]
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Yes of course....lead melts easily and computers etc are full of it and gas cutters etc were used in the clear up of the steel.

iron alloys may also have melted in the actual fires as according to RJ Lee this is expected but I have no personal experience of this. I doubt if there was any pure iron to melt in the towers as thats not much of an engineering material.
 
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Photo copier toner has iron-microspheres in.

http://upetd.up.ac.za/thesis/available/etd-06042004-062900/unrestricted/02chapter1.pdf

Check out how to make ferrofluids using it. Very cool. Oh and btw you'll also find in the above document dozens of uses for fly ash which contains ferrospheres (I'm bored of iron-rich microspheres) and a lot of them are found in erm, well just about everywhere from concrete to wallboard to PVC to mineral wool. Basically your average office and building will be packed with them.

Have fun kids. Bye.
 
Thanks, Oystein, for your analysis:cool:

Btw, I'm an occasional cigarette smoker and I have just found paper titled Magnetism of cigarette ashes. Although I have some doubts that it can be really interesting for any smoker, it's interesting for us, since it clearly shows that during burning of cigarettes, iron-rich particles are formed :cool:
See e.g. Fig. 5

Although the concentration of these magnetic "granules" is not high (ca 0.1 %), they are formed at temperatures below 1000 degrees C (temperatures of burning zone of the cigarette).
 
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Ivan Kminek said:
Thanks, Oystein, for your analysis:cool:

Btw, I'm an occasional cigarette smoker and I have just found paper titled Magnetism of cigarette ashes. Although I have some doubts that it can be really interesting for any smoker, it's interesting for us, since it clearly shows that during burning of cigarettes, iron-rich particles are formed :cool:
See e.g. Fig. 5

Although the concentration of these magnetic "granules" is not high (ca 0.1 %), they are formed at temperatures below 1000 degrees C (temperatures of burning zone of the cigarette).
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Take care Ivan.

...you risk being quoted as claiming that smokers were responsible for CD of the WTC towers. :)
 
superlogicalthinker said:
Show me where in that paper it says office fires get to 1000C.

you call everyone a liar, and say we never back up anything. Look at this.
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Office fire can exceed 1000 C. Why are you unable to handle knowledge, or refute statements with evidence, facts, and source? Because you don't do research, you post lies and nothing more. You find lies and post them, repeat failed nonsense. If I am wrong, please show me the source. I have researched this many years ago; in jet fuel fires temperatures go past 2000F, melt Al, and this was from an Air Force or Army study I have; do you have any studies? No, you have delusions. One of my crew I flew with was in an aircraft fire, his skin was burning from the fire from many feet away, the aircraft was reduced to a melted pile of junk, save the steel sections which do not melt at 1100 C. The fires in the WTC were hot enough, the gases hot enough to force people to jump, and those events were heard as explosions.


The fires in the WTC exceed 660 C, proved by melted cladding at the WTC. 660 C exceed the burn up super-nano-thermite-delusion, so the thermite burned up when the planes hit and fire started. Not unusual for flame temperature zone of 900 C in an office fire - do you try to research 911, or just copy and paste failed delusions?

Why have you failed to learn?
http://www.nfpa.org/aboutthecodes/AboutTheCodes.asp?DocNum=251

Are you unable to learn?
http://www.astm.org/Standards/E119.htm

Why are you posting lies here. If you have the truth you need to take action and save us all from the bad guys. oops, 19 terrorists are dead, and you want to blame who, Jews, Bush, Me? You can't do anything because you can't figure out 911, and you have no evidence.


Iron spheres can come from paper, toner from laser printers, jet fuel, thousands of objects in the WTC, paint, coatings, cement, etc.

The iron spheres have many different elements with them. They are not pure iron, some look like they could be burned up National Geographic Magazines, turned to dust in the WTC Event. You don't do chemistry, you don't do much more than find lies, fall for lies, repeat lies, and call other people liars because you can't stop spreading lies.
Got Chemistry? You don't do Physics. Do you do any math or science? Differential equations? Good luck
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ozeco41 said:
Take care Ivan.

...you risk being quoted as claiming that smokers were responsible for CD of the WTC towers. :)
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Hehe:D This was my original question to truthers, as regards this paper: "Is nanothermite planted even in every single cigarette?"
But I deleted this question, since iron-rich (mostly magnetite) particles in cigarette ash are not spherical, according to this paper.
 
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C7 said:
I don't have to prove it, it's not my "claim". The RJ Lee Group studied the dust and that was their conclusion. You can go into denial if you want but you don't know better than they do.
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LSSBB said:
RJ Lee says that the iron spheres come from the effect of heat of the fires on iron. So therefore you agree with them that the source was the heat of the fires
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Yes, the fires were hot enough to melt iron, but office fires burn at 1,000 degrees less than what is needed to melt iron. There would have to be an accelerant to attain the temperature needed to melt iron.
 
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Christopher7 said:
Yes, the fires were hot enough to melt iron, but office fires burn at 1,000 degrees less than what is needed to melt iron. There would have to be an accelerant to attain the temperature needed to melt iron.
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Hmm, but RJ Lee also wrote that they expected to find iron spheres because of the high temperatures. So one of the following must be true:
  1. RJ Lee mistakenly believe that microscopic amounts of iron particles can melt in fires under 2000°F
  2. RJ Lee mistakenly believe that office fires can get as hot as the melting point of iron (or even the boiling point of lead)
  3. RJ Lee are fully aware that exotic incendiaries played a huge role in the WTC event, but nonchalantly chose to participate in the Great Criminal Coverup
So which one is it, Christopher? 1, 2, or 3? Do you believe the professionals at RJ Lee are incompetent with regard to high temperatures and iron spheres, or are they criminals?
Or am I missing a possibility here? If so, please add it!


Oh and before you think you got away - I still have a few open questions for you, if you don't mind, concerning the distinct probability of iron fumes from clean-up work leaving a measurable mark in the dust just across the street:

  1. Do you accept that the air near GZ contained aerosols?
  2. Do you accept that the air near GZ contained iron in its aerosols?
  3. Do you accept that the concentration of iron in the air near GZ was (typical, or mean, value) 5µg/m3?
  4. Do you accept that this concentration is significantly higher than in typical inner city air, and that the source for the extra iron is most likely the nearby GZ?
  5. Do you accept that iron workers cutting up steel debris produce iron-rich microspheres and release them into the air?
  6. Do you accept that this iron work may account for a significant proportion of the measured increase of iron-rich aerosols in the air above GZ, given the fact that measured iron concentration near iron workers was significantly higher than near other workers on GZ?
  7. Do you accept that aerosols, including iron, are prone to falling out and settling as dust?
  8. Do you accept that the air inside the offices of 130 Liberty street, which had 1500 windows broken, exposing the offices to the elements, was constantly replenished with air from outside?
  9. Do you accept that this fresh air was also laden with iron-rich aerosols?
  10. Do you accept that these iron-rich aerosols are prone to falling out and settling into the dust even in the offices of 130 Liberty St?



Please indicate precisely which of these points you do not accept, and give short reasons!

If you accept them all, I guess you know your mechanism and are now ready to admit that there was indeed a mechanism "to deposit them in and on top of the building". Please acknowledge!
 
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Oystein said:
Hmm, but RJ Lee also wrote that they expected to find iron spheres because of the high temperatures. So one of the following must be true:
  1. RJ Lee mistakenly believe that microscopic amounts of iron particles can melt in fires under 2000°F
  2. RJ Lee mistakenly believe that office fires can get as hot as the melting point of iron (or even the boiling point of lead)
  3. RJ Lee are fully aware that exotic incendiaries played a huge role in the WTC event, but nonchalantly chose to participate in the Great Criminal Coverup
So which one is it, Christopher? 1, 2, or 3? Do you believe the professionals at RJ Lee are incompetent with regard to high temperatures and iron spheres, or are they criminals?
Or am I missing a possibility here? If so, please add it!
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I have already told you but it went in one ear and out the other with no intervening obstruction.

At that time the so called "experts" were saying that the jet fuel melted the steel.

Please try to absorb this information this time.


Your questions are moot and a distraction. I have already answered them.

"Iron melted during the WTC event."

But you refuse to believe the RJ Lee report.

ETA: You seem to think that the RJ Lee group is so stupid that they did not think of what you are talking about.
 
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