Merged Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth - (Part 2)

[tsig]

Remember, Ethnikos, that this thread is about Jesus' existence. Your above statement is about as tight a circular reasoning as one could imagine.

I don't know if he existed, nor do I care, nor do I think it would make a difference. Even if proven to have existed, he'd be nothing more than a fraud, and if not that, a nutjob with delusions. People can be convinced of almost anything today, think back 2000 years ago when people were even more superstitious.

I'm actually interested in what this thread will bring up too
All the arguments I've heard for an actual person being the source of the stories (Josephus, Tacitus, ...) are either controversial and disputed with as much vigor as they are proposed.
I'm inclined to think there is no actual evidence (and it is not possible) so I'll say probably didn't exist, and doesn't matter for the miracle claims anyway.

I find many of the posts by atheists in this thread (and not just the ones directed at me) quite hateful in spirit. Civility long ago stripped away leaving mocking, derisions and ultimatums.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215446

The quotes are from that thread. Please point out the hate.

 

[tsig]

How do you expect this conversation to go from here on? I am not here to provide a target at which to snipe and better about yourself. I am not a troll. I suppose I am more used to civil discourse, even among people who are theists and atheists.

Was hoping to find that here.

You find here what you bring here.

 

[tsig]

Well, it's certainly not ALL they wrote of. I'd be surprised if it was predominantly about miracles. What is fascinating for me is the historicity of the texts, primarily Old Testament ( which you'll find out if you look at pages 6, 10, and 11 of my post history. The normal day-to-day life of the times, events, people and stuff.

Boring compared to what you seem to be looking for.

You haven't read the NT?

 

[amb]

Yawn!

 

[dafydd]

Double yawn. Are Doc and OCaptain related?

 

[Resume]

Thank you, although I have to wonder how many of you read the posts that don't fit in pigeonholes, as I've been in this thread off and on since page 15, post 576. Resume's dismissive reply to me then (#578) was uneducated.

I don't think you understood it. The way you don't seem to understand the thread topic.

Now, do you possess some evidence in regard to the veracity of the new testament?

 

[X]

Yes, but I'm not DOC. Why can't you guys give everyone the benefit of the doubt and allow each to demonstrate who he/she is?

I never said or implied you were DOC. If you'll recall, I was replying to DOC and asking him why he thought the comparison he was making was valid.

In short, I did exactly what you are demanding here,, and allowed DOC to demonstrate who he is (a xenophobe). I made no comment on anyone else. If you choose to feel that I was applying my comments to you, or even theists in general, that's your prerogative. It's wrong, and the content of my posts shows that, but you may feel broad-brushed if you want to.

 

[catsmate]

When you ask someone, in essence, "who are you to speak?", that is nothing but a challenge.

When you make an unsupported argument from authority here, expect it to be challenged.

 

[OCaptain]

You haven't read the NT?

Stop it.

I have read it. I can't believe basics like that for a thread like this aren't assumed.

I can do an analysis of it to see the verse count for prosaic. Vs miraculous subjects, but why should I do your work for you? You've got this thread soooo well in hand.

 

[OCaptain]

When you make an unsupported argument from authority here, expect it to be challenged.

Oh, do tell? Which one did I make?

Oh, and by the by, that's called making an appeal TO authority. So, for example, if I said "Steve Jobs is an expert on blue, and he said "blue is the best color of all". That's how I know blue is the best color". See, the reason that's a fallacy is because Steve Jobs is NOT an expert on blue. If you'd read his biography, you'd know that.

 

[OCaptain]

I don't think you understood it. The way you don't seem to understand the thread topic.

Now, do you possess some evidence in regard to the veracity of the new testament?

You didn't read your own post or there is no way you could have said that with a straight face.

Come on. You played with the fricking highlight tool in an uneducated attempt to make fun of something you didn't understand (and still don't understand) - an email list serve hosted by Yahoo where scholars in fields related to biblical research come to discuss publications, studies, questions, issues, etc.

That doesn't speak well for your ability and willingness to fill in blanks in your knowledge. To me, that is the biggest disappointment of all for me in my exchanges with you.

 

[Resume]

To me, that is the biggest disappointment of all for me in my exchanges with you.

Didn't realize you had any expectations.

Now, as to the thread topic once again, do you possess evidence for it?

 

[Resume]

That doesn't speak well for your ability and willingness to fill in blanks in your knowledge.

I fill the blanks in my knowledge just fine thanks. Every day as a matter of fact, where I deem necessary. I have some self-irony in regard to what I know, and what I need to know.

So, will you be presenting evidence as to the thread topic?

 

[OCaptain]

I fill the blanks in my knowledge just fine thanks. Every day as a matter of fact, where I deem necessary. I have some self-irony in regard to what I know, and what I need to know.

So, will you be presenting evidence as to the thread topic?

Oh, how ironic. For all the accusations of not reading the thread I have gotten in the past 12 hours, if you'd read just MY posts, you'd see I already answered this question.

Not doing it again just for you. Please check and get back to me.

 

[Resume]

Oh, how ironic. For all the accusations of not reading the thread I have gotten in the past 12 hours, if you'd read just MY posts, you'd see I already answered this question.

Not doing it again just for you. Please check and get back to me.

One of the assertions in DOC's original, #1 post was that the new testament writers gave evidence for miracles. Whether or not you're interested in miracles is off topic. Do you have any evidence for the new testament writers telling the truth about miracles?

Thanks.

 

[DOC]

Professor Thomas Arnold of Oxford (Author of the History of Rome) would have disagreed with you.

Thomas Arnold quote:

“I have been used for many years to study the histories of other times, and to examine and weigh the evidence of those who have written about them, and I know of no one fact in the history of mankind which is proved by better and fuller evidence of every sort, to the understanding of a fair inquirer, than the great sign which God has given us that Christ died and rose again from the dead.”

Would the professor care to provide evidence of this?

Well, he has passed away but you might read his 3 volume “History of Rome” to get an idea of his understanding of the biblical era; here is some evidence however:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=5959646#post5959646

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=6366925#post6366925

http://books.google.com/books?id=PC...6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Geisler 10 reasons&f=false

Care to show us evidence that your Jesus character actually rose from the dead?

http://www.leaderu.com/everystudent/easter/articles/josh2.html

 

[OCaptain]

One of the assertions in DOC's original, #1 post was that the new testament writers gave evidence for miracles. Whether or not you're interested in miracles is off topic. Do you have any evidence for the new testament writers telling the truth about miracles?

Thanks.

You still haven't found it.

Off you go.

 

[Resume]

You still haven't found it.

Off you go.

Seems dishonest of you.

 

[zooterkin]

You still haven't found it.

Hard to see something that's not there.

 

[ddt]

Well, he has passed away but you might read his 3 volume “History of Rome” to get an idea of his understanding of the biblical era; here is some evidence however:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=5959646#post5959646

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=6366925#post6366925

You like linking back to your own garbage?

http://books.google.com/books?id=PC...6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Geisler 10 reasons&f=false

Again with that failed book that half of the posters here can't read online?

http://www.leaderu.com/everystudent/easter/articles/josh2.html

And we've gone over that one several times too. You failed miserably there too.

Can't you at least come up with something new to try?