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Merged Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth - (Part 2)

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So hatred by atheists to deists is okay because hatred by deists to theists happens?

That's your logic? Can't we move beyond that playground thinking?
Check your terminology a bit here.
I think you mean atheist to theist and not deist.

Also, I would request to see examples of what you are defining as "hatred".
It would help understand a bit more as to what you are referring to.
 
When you ask someone, in essence, "who are you to speak?", that is nothing but a challenge.


Oh, OK. A bit iffy, but I suppose I can see it as a sort of a challenge.

So how about answering it? What credentials do you have that allow you to pass judgement on what is and isn't worth discussing here?

Mind you, it was only a rhetorical question anyway so ignore it if you wish and deal with this more substantial challenge:

Present your evidence for why the New Testament writers told the truth or I will assume that you have none.​
 
Check your terminology a bit here.
I think you mean atheist to theist and not deist.

Also, I would request to see examples of what you are defining as "hatred".
It would help understand a bit more as to what you are referring to.
Fair enough, atheist to theist.

I began my posts in the thread today with a VERY measured post with a perspective that few could classify as inflammatory, but noone wants to talk about that.

Why not? Are you so accustomed to unreasonableness that you expect it from every quarter?
 
Oh, OK. A bit iffy, but I suppose I can see it as a sort of a challenge.

So how about answering it? What credentials do you have that allow you to pass judgement on what is and isn't worth discussing here?

Mind you, it was only a rhetorical question anyway so ignore it if you wish and deal with this more substantial challenge:

Present your evidence for why the New Testament writers told the truth or I will assume that you have none.​
I've done so last year in a prove the historicity of Jesus thread, so I'm not inclined to tread that minefield again. There's nothing NEW to examine.

Is there?

Here is my initial post in that thread. I expect the same excoriation here as there. I'm waiting to be pleasantly surprised.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7458850&postcount=690
 
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I've done so last year in a prove the historicity of Jesus thread, so I'm not inclined to tread that minefield again. There's nothing NEW to examine.

Is there?

Here is my initial post in that thread. I expect the same excoriation here as there. I'm waiting to be pleasantly surprised.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7458850&postcount=690


Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.

It doesn't matter to me at all if 'jesus' was a historical figure, or if you have dedicated your life to demonstrating that he was (to your satisfaction), or how your arguments have been received.
 
Fair enough, atheist to theist.

I began my posts in the thread today with a VERY measured post with a perspective that few could classify as inflammatory, but noone wants to talk about that.

Why not? Are you so accustomed to unreasonableness that you expect it from every quarter?

I responded to it, didn't I?
(see below)
I took it as a honest attempt at discussion.
Was my response disrespectful?



Each paradign uses the tools with which they are accustomed to fortify their own beliefs experientially, sometimes to the detriment of others. Each paradigm - even those whose ostensibly is the absence of belief - is mutually exclusive to a degree, if taken to their natural conclusions.

We've done it since for as long as recorded history, and we'll likely do it until we are no more, unless we make a conscious effort to focus on the elements of our respective theoretical frameworks that we share in common, instead of those which currently divide us, as sadly demonstrated in this thread.

Best Salaams
Hi, OCaptain.

I agree with you that each uses the tools to fortify their own beliefs. But I disagree that these tools are different.

In fact they all amount to the same mechanism: Confirmation Bias.
If one has a preconceived notion and wishes to believe it, one will simply look for things that affirm that belief. Regardless of whether or not those things are rationally sound arguments.

It is for this reason that the scientific method was developed as a tool to counteract this bias. We know this works because of all the things we have learned using it. Things that we can independently verify and experimentally disprove.

When it comes down to the idea of god, it seems that every "hypothesis" that proposed has either been shown to
1.) Not require god or not found god (e.g., diversity of life, bugs from decaying meat, God being in the "heavens"...)
or
2.)be untestable.


In fact, the only positions I see that do not violate this confirmation bias problems are either the Deist position or the atheist position.
 
So hatred by atheists to deists is okay because hatred by deists to theists happens?

That's your logic? Can't we move beyond that playground thinking?

You started it. Quote some examples of atheist hatred that have been posted here.
 
Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.

It doesn't matter to me at all if 'jesus' was a historical figure, or if you have dedicated your life to demonstrating that he was (to your satisfaction), or how your arguments have been received.
And you don't care sooooo much that you simply must respond to me?

I feel so honored.
 
I responded to it, didn't I?
(see below)
I took it as a honest attempt at discussion.
Was my response disrespectful?
No, and you're right! I was thinking about confirmation bias when I put together that post, thinking how ingrained in us humans it is.

You and I are closer on this point than many. But I see too little scientific method offered for either position - atheist or theist - in some threads here. I read allusions to it, but very often not the walk doesn't match the talk.
 
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No examples of atheist hatred toward theists here. Why am I not surprised?
 
No, and you're right! I was thinking about confirmation bias when I put together that post, thinking how ingrained in us humans it is.

You and I are closer on this point than many. But I see too little scientific method offered for either position - atheist or theist - in some threads here. I read allusions to it, but very often not the walk doesn't match the talk.

Which one of the many gods that mankind has invented would you like atheists to apply the scientific method to? I am an atheist simply because I have never seen any evidence that any god or gods exist. That is my method. If you have evidence, bring it on.
 
<snip>

Present your evidence for why the New Testament writers told the truth or I will assume that you have none.​


I've done so last year in a prove the historicity of Jesus thread, so I'm not inclined to tread that minefield again. There's nothing NEW to examine.

Is there?


Yeah, I rather think there might be.

Alleged miracles and the alleged resurrection might be a good place to start, although I must confess that I'd like to hurry things along a bit because I've been hoping for years that one day we'll get around to the truthiness of my favourite book - Revelation.


Here is my initial post in that thread. I expect the same excoriation here as there. I'm waiting to be pleasantly surprised.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7458850&postcount=690


Since all you've linked to is a single post I can't see any of the excoriation that it generated, and I couldn't really be bothered reading through the whole tragic thread again to find it so I'll take your word for it.

Now . . . about those miracles.
 
Yeah, I rather think there might be.

Alleged miracles and the alleged resurrection might be a good place to start, although I must confess that I'd like to hurry things along a bit because I've been hoping for years that one day we'll get around to the truthiness of my favourite book - Revelation.





Since all you've linked to is a single post I can't see any of the excoriation that it generated, and I couldn't really be bothered reading through the whole tragic thread again to find it so I'll take your word for it.

Now . . . about those miracles.

I have never seen such a disgusting example of hatred toward theists in all my life. Go and wash your mouth out with fire and brimstone.
 
No, and you're right! I was thinking about confirmation bias when I put together that post, thinking how ingrained in us humans it is.

You and I are closer on this point than many. But I see too little scientific method offered for either position - atheist or theist - in some threads here. I read allusions to it, but very often not the walk doesn't match the talk.
I do not add complexity to explain something when it isn't needed.
The problem here is burden of proof.
We have yet to encounter a condition which needs "god" to explain it. As such, I see no reason why we should.
 
Which one of the many gods that mankind has invented would you like atheists to apply the scientific method to? I am an atheist simply because I have never seen any evidence that any god or gods exist. That is my method. If you have evidence, bring it on.
That does bring up a good question I have. How many deities have had their non-existence proven and using what methodologies? Who were the researchers? Where were they published?
 
I do not add complexity to explain something when it isn't needed.
The problem here is burden of proof.
We have yet to encounter a condition which needs "god" to explain it. As such, I see no reason why we should.

It would take a lifetime for an atheist to investigate every god that mankind has invented. Let's leave it to the theists to come up with proof. I won't be holding my breath, they have had thousands of years and not a shred has been forthcoming.
 
That does bring up a good question I have. How many deities have had their non-existence proven and using what methodologies? Who were the researchers? Where were they published?

What would be the point? The believers would ignore it and the atheists know that no evidence has ever been put on the table.
 
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I have never seen such a disgusting example of hatred toward theists in all my life. Go and wash your mouth out with fire and brimstone.


But my blind hatred is all that sustains me.

And my abiding rage.

Wait . . .

The TWO things that sustain me are my blind hatred and my abiding rage.

And my enduring distaste for proselytisers.


I'd better go and get the comfy chair.
 
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