UFOs: The Research, the Evidence

[Paul2]

In Ufology's defense, I think there might be a way to look at the witch analogy and see a strawman there.

The problem is, though, that the strawman was not the point of bringing up the witches. The point is that it's an analogy. It doesn't prove anything, it merely is a way to see that the reliability of a witness - be it a fighter pilot or a priest - only goes so far in validating their conclusions. We know that because we see reliability of a witness failing when it comes to witches, and the same considerations apply for aliens.

 

[Sideroxylon]

We do not have direct access to objective reality. Consider optical, audiory and tactile illusions. Surely I need not give examples. Our cultural ubringing also mediates our interpretation of experiences. Mr Ufology, if you had been born a few hundred years ago in the U.S. or Europe, you may well have attributed strange lights in the sky to witches and be just as sure about that "fact" as you are today.

If you are half serious about the study of UFO phenomena you will have a whole catalogue of examples of how people were shown to be very wrong in adamamnt witness reports. You shouldn't need to be told any of this.

 

[RoboTimbo]

In Ufology's defense, I think there might be a way to look at the witch analogy and see a strawman there.

But nobody is saying that he believes in UFOs ( witches ). In fact, everyone is wondering why he doesn't, given that there is so much more and better quality evidence for UFOs ( witches ).

 

[ehcks]

And the above is using witches ( the straw man ) as a basis for maintaining UFOs ( alien craft ) are preposterous. <snip>

UFOs are not (alien craft). If they were, you could show me an (alien craft).

UFOs are witches. Because they are, I can show you a witch.

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/salem/SAL_BBIS.HTM

Bridget Bishop, convicted of and executed for witchcraft. Or are judges not as credible as fighter pilots?

And now I have a sudden pang of remorse for using a dead person as evidence... :-\

 

[Garrison]

But nobody is saying that he believes in UFOs ( witches ). In fact, everyone is wondering why he doesn't, given that there is so much more and better quality evidence for UFOs ( witches ).

Ah but in Ufology's deluded world view that is exactly what you are saying. Remember it is one of the basic tenets of his belief that:

UFO = Alien Spacecraft

Thus when you say that a UFO could be a witch Ufology reads that as:

Alien Spacecraft = Witch

Faced with that his mind goes 'tilt'.

 

[23_Tauri]

Ah but in Ufology's deluded world view that is exactly what you are saying. Remember it is one of the basic tenets of his belief that:

UFO = Alien Spacecraft

Thus when you say that a UFO could be a witch Ufology reads that as:

Alien Spacecraft = Witch

Faced with that his mind goes 'tilt'.

Ahhhh!

Thank you, Garrison. You have just made ufology's posts make more sense to me than ufology ever could. His nonsense is more understandable now that I see it from folo's twisted logic.

 

[MG1962]

Ah but in Ufology's deluded world view that is exactly what you are saying. Remember it is one of the basic tenets of his belief that:

UFO = Alien Spacecraft

Thus when you say that a UFO could be a witch Ufology reads that as:

Alien Spacecraft = Witch

Faced with that his mind goes 'tilt'.

Nominated for pith! Very well played

 

[I Am He]

We have seen many examples where the pseudoscience of "ufology" apparently holds itself to a different standard of honesty and reality than the helpful cooperative skeptics. Special pleading, redefinition of terms, deflecting the burden of proof, arguments from incredulity and ignorance, it all seems to be acceptable practice for "ufologists". Good thing reality doesn't work that way or we'd never improve our understanding of the universe or make any scientific progress.

You hit the nail on the head with that, GeeMack.




I Am He

 

[I Am He]

Here's that link again for you: Straw Man

Now how did I know you would dodge that? Could it be because that's what you've been doing all along?




I Am He

 

[ufology]

In Ufology's defense, I think there might be a way to look at the witch analogy and see a strawman there.

The problem is, though, that the strawman was not the point of bringing up the witches. The point is that it's an analogy. It doesn't prove anything, it merely is a way to see that the reliability of a witness - be it a fighter pilot or a priest - only goes so far in validating their conclusions. We know that because we see reliability of a witness failing when it comes to witches, and the same considerations apply for aliens.

Paul,

The reliability issue was addressed when I asked for an example where a witch was tracked on radar and pursued by military jets. We no longer live in the age of witch trials. Ufology requires no superstitious belief in the supernatural. Radar operators, pilots and people in general are far more educated and capable of discerning. Compare the education, training and scientific knowledge of an Air Force pilot to anyone in the 1600s ( when most witch trials were going on ). Even the average high school student knows more about the world, and there is no scientific reason alien craft cannot exist.

So not only is the comparison a strawman argument, it doesn't hold up even as a comparison of witness credibility. I mean get serious, they're talking about people being persecuted because music, dancing, celebration of holidays such as Christmas and Easter, were absolutely forbidden compared to objects seen in the sky by radar operators, pilots, police, and other people in modern times. There have been and probably still are, scientists and engineers in modern times who have taken them very seriously. Besides that, you know as well as I do that the witch comparison here isn't being used for any other reason than another tool for mockery, just look back at the illustrations and continued lack of consideration.

 

[Tomtomkent]

That makes no sense.

The statement being made is: ALL UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS COULD BE WITCHES.
All of them. All of those that have been seen, tracked on radar, or followed by fighterjets and are unidentified.

Do you have any evidence they are alien craft? No. They are unidentified. So how have you discounted the witch theory?

 

[ufology]

That makes no sense.

The statement being made is: ALL UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS COULD BE WITCHES.
All of them. All of those that have been seen, tracked on radar, or followed by fighterjets and are unidentified.

Do you have any evidence they are alien craft? No. They are unidentified. So how have you discounted the witch theory?

Well if you honestly believe UFOs could be witches, go ahead and keep believing that. It just helps illustrate how completely unreasonable some of the so-called skeptics here are.

 

[Drs_Res]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94xAkiWcUBQ

 

[Krikkiter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94xAkiWcUBQ

The cop said he was sure it was a witch. That settles it.

 

[Krikkiter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zODr32shxDA&feature=endscreen&NR=1

 

[23_Tauri]

Radar operators, pilots and people in general are far more educated and capable of discerning.

Oil well fires, anyone?

Compare the education, training and scientific knowledge of an Air Force pilot to anyone in the 1600s ( when most witch trials were going on ). Even the average high school student knows more about the world, and there is no scientific reason alien craft cannot exist.

It's not about science, or even education, fo. The issue is that whether we are talking about a ufologist who interprets a report of unusual lights or objects seen by pilots as being alien spaceships, or whether we are talking about magistrates believing the testimonies of those accusing others in their community of witchcraft, it's still people taking the stories of others at face value and interpreting in a manner that supports their preconceived beliefs.

I mean get serious, they're talking about people being persecuted because music, dancing, celebration of holidays such as Christmas and Easter, were absolutely forbidden

If I were you, fo, I'd learn a little bit about the history of the persecution of women (and some men) in Europe and North America for alleged witchcraft during the Early Modern Period before making such ignorant comments and proclaiming the analogy to be a duff one. Then you might understand why the witch analogy is being used by some of the posters here.

Besides that, you know as well as I do that the witch comparison here isn't being used for any other reason than another tool for mockery, just look back at the illustrations and continued lack of consideration.

No, it's not for reasons of mockery. That it might have become a rich seam for the mining a little comedy gold along the way is by-the-by.

 

[Toke]

Well if you honestly believe UFOs could be witches, go ahead and keep believing that. It just helps illustrate how completely unreasonable some of the so-called skeptics here are.

No, witches help to illustrate the problems with taking witness testimony at face value.

 

[Sideroxylon]

Well if you honestly believe UFOs could be witches, go ahead and keep believing that. It just helps illustrate how completely unreasonable some of the so-called skeptics here are.

No, this is an illustration of how being unable to account for something you see is not a blank cheque to be cashed in on whatever unproven phenomena that you fancy, be it witches, saucers or ghosts.

 

[Tomtomkent]

Well if you honestly believe UFOs could be witches, go ahead and keep believing that. It just helps illustrate how completely unreasonable some of the so-called skeptics here are.

So unlike witches, ghosts, will'o'wisps and teddybears in hot air balloons, you happen to have to hand a flying saucer to conclusively prove the radar and performance correlates to. Those of a ufo? You are of course treating all silly ideas with the same scrutiny?


Or do you not undeerstand the analogy?


And out of interest, how do you know the ufos tracked by radar is not a witch? The same way you know it is alien?

 

[mike3]

Well if you honestly believe UFOs could be witches, go ahead and keep believing that. It just helps illustrate how completely unreasonable some of the so-called skeptics here are.

He didn't say he believed that. He said that with no evidence to enable object identification, if you want to speculate in spite of that lack, it's as good as conjecturing witches as it is aliens.