The Genesis Seal

Kingfisher2926 said:
I get your point, but your initial 'word' isn't even a proper word. To be comparable to the Genesis Seal you would have to
  1. start with a valid piece of prose,
  2. make sure it can be re-arranged in a special way that reveals the content you intend,
  3. better still, make sure it can be formatted in two or more ways that reveal related content in comparable structural arrangements,
  4. ensure the right way to perform the rearrangements is communicated, and
  5. incorpoate some clues into the same prose that achieve said communication.

After all that, you have to step out of the picture so that no-one knows how it all began, and generate some sense of mystery.
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And there it is, despite all the denials of doing so.
 
To capture the momentum:
Kingfisher2926 said:
At first, I didn't get much joy with an expanding spiral.
.. then I .. split the text into consecutive blocks of ..
.. put them together in a variety of novel ways.
The square perimeter seemed to offer the most promise, so ran with that for a while..
.. soon inserting the first 36 letters of ..
That was when I came upon a whole host of ..
It was actually much later that I started to notice that stages needed to ..
Later still, I also noticed that the same square depicts ..
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A lot of false and fresh starts. You fail to find something that rings true, so you alter the process. You keep doing this. Sometimes you inherit the last process and mutate it into the next.

I have done this myself when drawing. I 'search' for a line or a moment that looks right. Until then I erase and draw, erase, scribble, move the line, move the shading, erase, draw. It feeds-back too. The arm suggests the shoulder. That suggest the plane of the torso. A mere scratch can suggest the placement of the head; a dot the eyes.

I suggest that you were seeking something and you kept moving through the options, rapidly, until you found a rich vein. This is a form of random jumping through design-space, followed by scouting when you chance on a fertile area. Zoom out and you will see a vast barn with bullet holes in it...


You did not have 'much joy' at first because:
Kingfisher2926 said:
At first I just didn't recognise everything that was staring me in the face (just inexperience).
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So you had some (even vague) notion of what you wanted to find.

And what I did recognise didn't make complete sense until I had discovered related stuff in other views of the Seal.
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This notion was gaining focus. By feed-back with what you saw (and it has been apophenia all the time), it is gaining a story.

That was when the synergy of it started to come together as a coherent whole.
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And you have fixed your story. You now think it was there all along and you forget - your own words "I find it difficult to remember now" (post 444) - that it started quite differently.

You are forgetting your misses. You are doing a cold-reading on yourself!
 
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Kingfisher2926 said:
After all that, you have to step out of the picture so that no-one knows how it all began, and generate some sense of mystery.
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You just summed-up your own situation. You have contrived to forget the origins and you are frolicking in the sense of mystery. This is why you refuse to test your assumptions.

You even said, "I still feel uneasy about trampling over it too much with rule and compass." (post 438). The quote is out of context, but it admits of a carefree attitude. No rulers here. No compass for you!

Are you being serious, or are you playing?
 
yy2bggggs said:
I think you're way too emotionally invested in the Genesis Seal, but you're committing the same error over and over. I'm going to attempt to explain this error using something that is completely unrelated.

Let's suppose I have a cold one year, and I eat some Cream of Mushroom soup. I notice, after I eat the Cream of Mushroom soup, that I get better. So I form the belief that Cream of Mushroom soup is good for colds.

The next year, when I catch a cold, I eat some Cream of Mushroom soup. And sure enough, I get better. Let's suppose this goes on for a decade... every year, I catch a cold. Every year, I eat Cream of Mushroom soup. And every year after eating the Cream of Mushroom soup, I get better. I now have a lot of data points; and by now, I'm completely sold on the fact that Cream of Mushroom soup is good for colds.

However, there's a huge problem with my approach. Can you spot it?
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I'm happy to play along. My answer would be that colds nearly always bett better quite soon whatever you do. If this is what you mean, what's the second lesson?
 
Donn said:
You just summed-up your own situation. You have contrived to forget the origins and you are frolicking in the sense of mystery. This is why you refuse to test your assumptions.

You even said, "I still feel uneasy about trampling over it too much with rule and compass." (post 438). The quote is out of context, but it admits of a carefree attitude. No rulers here. No compass for you!

Are you being serious, or are you playing?
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I truly am being serious. I don't get you point about forgetting origins, since I am not the author of the original biblical text.
My own quote about rule and compass does not admit of a carefree attitude so much as a sort of reverence that, I do admit, is not easily reconciled with the scientific method. In fact, most of the methods I am reading about here are to do with subjective perception, rather than objective tests on the data itself. And I have already gone over my reasons for putting off those tests. (i) I would need an input of manpower, preferrably qualified, and (ii) I question why, if you doubt my objectivity, you think I might be more objective woring on a control sample of data.
 
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KF,
You seem to have dismissed most of my recent posts. They may be flawed, but it's telling that you chose the reply you did.
 
Kingfisher2926 said:
I'm happy to play along. My answer would be that colds nearly always bett better quite soon whatever you do.
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That's precisely the idea. But why does this mean that I have a problem with my methodology? What am I doing wrong, and what should I be doing instead?
If this is what you mean, what's the second lesson?
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There's no second lesson. It's just this one.

I could make a second lesson if you really like. But all I'm trying to do is to show how we're viewing your Genesis seal.
 
If you arrange the text of Genesis 1:1-5 in figure-eight pattern - eight being the number of transcendence in Kabbalah - the word "troll" will appear. And as we all know, the word "troll" has the same g'matriya as "OH RLY?"
 
David Swidler said:
I spend my week immersed in Biblical Hebrew, Talmudic exegesis and sources of Kabbalistic interpretation. The premise of this thread so distorts the way the text is approached in these sources as to be laughable.

You don't go looking for patterns, even if you accept the divine origin on the Torah. In traditional Jewish learning g'matriya and other tricks of the text are mnemonics at best; and interpolating other letters into random strings of text is just plain stupid.

So now that a Rabbi has assessed your "thesis," Kingfisher2926 (if that's in fact what it can be called), and found it to be utter rubbish even from a believer's point of view, where does that leave you?
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Wringing reality from old texts is counterproductive when the world is right there.
 
Kingfisher2926 said:
As you say, ...i'm not sure you'll be able to find anyone willing to devote the time.. It would, indeed, take a great deal of time to do this formally. I was perhaps over-optimistic to hope that, by airing this material in the JREF forum, I might attract others willing to help. In all honesty, as an individual I do not have that kind of time at my disposal. So, I must proceed in the manner of a gifted amateur, not so much a professional mining engineer as a 'Skookum' Jim Mason.
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Fair enough - you openly say you don't have the time to follow the thorough scientific method required, and I can't hold that against you. But you have to realise that this is a skeptics forum, and skepticism is based around not believing something without substantial evidence, and if you can't provide that evidence you will receive a skeptical response.

Kingfisher2926 said:
What have I deduced? Concerning the origin of the Genesis Seal, this is all I can offer, at present:


However, bit by bit, I shall present some important conclusions concerning the influence the Seal has had in human history.
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1. What is the message? As a previous poster pointed out, if you're going to encrypt a message into a passage of text, it would be entirely pointless to make the encrypted message the same as the message already in the text. You would have to hide something new.

2. There is no evidence whatsoever that anyone has ever arranged the text from genesis in the way you do over the course of history, much less spent the same amount of time finding words in it or ascribing meaning to them.
 
Kingfisher2926 said:
At first I just didn't recognise everything that was staring me in the face (just inexperience). And what I did recognise didn't make complete sense until I had discovered related stuff in other views of the Seal. That was when the synergy of it started to come together as a coherent whole. You'll see what I mean when I make my next contributory post. I have been drafting it this afternoon, but need to type it up and produce two bespoke illustrations. Should be ready tomorrow.
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Consider the following sequence of data points:

garbage, garbage, garbage, garbage, garbage, garbage, garbage, garbage, garbage, garbage, garbage, garbage, garbage, garbage

I suggest that there is a trend going on here...

I predict that your next post will be... (wait for it...) garbage.

All you have offered us is offensive pseudointellectual slop. I do not think that you have anything better than that to offer.

By all means, please continue to spend the rest of your life on this garbage - it will keep you out of trouble. Your 'seal' is such obvious nonsense that few others will fall for it, and anyone who does is free to waste their lives as they see fit.

The corn gods makes far more sense, and you have no idea how very insulting that statement is.
 
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David Swidler said:
What makes you think the two are mutually exclusive?
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Sorry, David, but I don't really regard your interests (e.g. study of the torah, kabala) to be of any value. I don't respect superstition in any of its forms, and I think we all would be far better off without any of it.
 
That's precisely the idea. But why does this mean that I have a problem with my methodology? What am I doing wrong, and what should I be doing instead?
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Sorry for the delay; just been watching Sherlock on TV.
Probably not what you expect me to say, but: unbeknown to me, my wife has been putting paracetamol and a cocktail of patent remedies in my mushroom soup, or extra magic-mushrooms from the garden, which made me feel better despite the cold. All I'm suggesting here, a little facetiously, is that there can be explanations that no amount of digging will reveal.
Honestly, I'm not really sure what you have in mind.
 
stokes234 said:
Fair enough - you openly say you don't have the time to follow the thorough scientific method required, and I can't hold that against you. But you have to realise that this is a skeptics forum, and skepticism is based around not believing something without substantial evidence, and if you can't provide that evidence you will receive a skeptical response.



1. What is the message? As a previous poster pointed out, if you're going to encrypt a message into a passage of text, it would be entirely pointless to make the encrypted message the same as the message already in the text. You would have to hide something new.

2. There is no evidence whatsoever that anyone has ever arranged the text from genesis in the way you do over the course of history, much less spent the same amount of time finding words in it or ascribing meaning to them.
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1.I think there is some confusion between the message and something quite different to is often attached to a message. You've seen why I gave the Genesis Seal that name. It is partly because it shows a stamp of authority. A more sophisticated variation on this idea is that of an error-correcting check-sum attached to an electronic message just before it is sent. I like to think of the Genesis Seal being a kind of check-sum that can help in testing the integrity of the message itself. That would be why lots of its components look for all the world like preparatory notes for what will appear later as extended narrative passages. The check-sum does not contain new information; only sufficient meta-data about the real message to help, if necessary, to re-construct the authors true purpose.
2. We are dealing here with a religious text that has been an input to many beliefs and philosophies. Suppose, just for example, that the Pythagorean School at Croton had been one of them. Like many other such organisations they were very secretive, requiring initiates to swear solemn oaths of loyalty and secrecy. One of the reasons that secret societies are popular targets for conspiracy theorists is precisely because their sacred texts and beliefs are inaccessible. Indeed, it is very likely that as the older societies died out, so did their inner secrets. Eventually, I shall show that the Genesis Seal maps so closely onto what we do know about such matters that it has to be prime candidate to fill in lots of the gaps in our knowledge.
I shall make my next submission tomorrow.
 
Donn said:
KF,
You seem to have dismissed most of my recent posts. They may be flawed, but it's telling that you chose the reply you did.
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Sorry Donn. It's not malicious or personal; and on looking back I've noticed that I have failed to reply to other posters, too, some of them to a greater degree. Truth is, if I replied to every post (and you will have seen some of the crap there is on here), I would never go forward. I try to respond to the posts that raise something different from anything that has gone before. But I will occasionally overlook the odd gem.
 
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