100 million deaths due to capitalism in the 20th century.

[Bill Thompson]

What, all of them? At the same time?

Let's discuss your signature.

What is the deal with you quoting me out of context and labeling me? That is not very rational, dude.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

globalization is a direct result of capitalism, so is slavery.

dude...read marx.

Bad news, BD. We have read Marx.

From each according to ability.
To each according to need.
​

Sound familiar? Under communism, you do what the State determines your ability is. Your compensation is you get to live another day. Basic life support, or "according to your need" as Marx put it.

Marx's description of communism is a perfect definition of a master/slave relationship.

 

[bikerdruid]

Bad news, BD. We have read Marx.

From each according to ability.
To each according to need.
​

Marx's description of communism is a perfect definition of a master/slave relationship.

From each according to ability.
To each according to need.
​

absolutely.
perhaps you never read to the end of marx and engels...the best part.
the state becomes unnecessary.

the state has long since past their 'best by date'.

there's no government, like no government!
workers of the world, UNITE! etc, etc, etc.

 

[The Dark Lord]

Marx and Engels were deluded. So are any modern day people that believe the garbage they wrote.

 

[TubbaBlubba]

Bad news, BD. We have read Marx.

From each according to ability.
To each according to need.
​

Sound familiar? Under communism, you do what the State determines your ability is. Your compensation is you get to live another day. Basic life support, or "according to your need" as Marx put it.

Marx's description of communism is a perfect definition of a master/slave relationship.

Actually, I do wonder if you have read Marx. I haven't, but I know this much: That was to apply in the utopia that was Communism, NOT in the transitional dictatorship of Marxist Socialism. The idea was that there would be such a surplus and that people would work for the joy of it, not needing any authority, that everyone would do what they did best and have enough.

I don't actually think that is realistic in any way, for a multitude of reasons. But I think neither China nor Soviet Russia ever claimed to live up to that, they had "from each according to his abilities, to each according to his work" instead.

 

[Ziggurat]

perhaps you never read to the end of marx and engels...the best part.
the state becomes unnecessary.

I confess I haven't read to the end of Marx and Engels. I have, however, read to the end of the Princess and the Frog. The princess kisses the frog, and he magically turns into a prince.

It's about as realistic.

Face it bd: the world doesn't work the way they thought it would work. Their supposedly inevitable evolution of society into a communist utopia is simply never going to happen. Even the defense of Marx that he never envisioned anything like the Soviet Union, or Maoist China, etc. still end up conceding that his theories were simply wrong, since those are the only terms under which communism ever actually gets implemented.

the state has long since past their 'best by date'.

Sure, because stateless societies are just so damned effective. Why, the world is filled with stateless societies which are just so damned effective, they're trouncing states left and right on every metric.

Oh, wait, they aren't....

Have you gotten anything right in this thread so far?

there's no government, like no government!
workers of the world, UNITE! etc, etc, etc.

There's nothing like extra large font size to convince everyone that you're not crazy. No, really, you're perfectly sane, it's the rest of the world which is crazy, you just have to shout extra loud to convince everyone.

 

[Pardalis]

etc, etc, etc.

Better skip to that part next time.

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

bikerdruid seems to have significant problems with the concept of "causation". For example, WW II wasn't caused by Capitalism; it was caused by Fascism in Germany and Japan. Please note that the USSR, as a Communist country, lost more people to the Germans than Western (capitalist) nations did; likewise, more Chinese (Communists again) were killed or suffered under the Japanese than any Western nation.

...(as demonstrated by the fact that both Russia and China, Communist nations, also went to war).

{pedant}
China wasn't communist during WWII. There was a sizable communist force under Mao, but the Chinese government was Nationalist during the entire war.
{/pedant}

 

[bit_pattern]

It's a telling fact that when the US and/or some European countries want labor conditions written into trade agreements in, say, WTO, the fiercest protesters are the developing countries.

Really? Source?

 

[Virus]

Actually, I do wonder if you have read Marx. I haven't, but I know this much: That was to apply in the utopia that was Communism, NOT in the transitional dictatorship of Marxist Socialism. The idea was that there would be such a surplus and that people would work for the joy of it, not needing any authority, that everyone would do what they did best and have enough.

I don't actually think that is realistic in any way, for a multitude of reasons. But I think neither China nor Soviet Russia ever claimed to live up to that, they had "from each according to his abilities, to each according to his work" instead.

Judge communism by what it did, not what it said.

 

[bikerdruid]

Judge communism by what it did, not what it said.

ah, the truth will out....
you have not read the communist manifesto.
why did you say you had?

 

[Humes fork]

Really? Source?

Read this back in university.

 

[Humes fork]

I confess I haven't read to the end of Marx and Engels.

I wpuldn't worry about that. The people who have read Marx and Engels and ended up believing in their stuff seem not to have studied reality.

 

[TubbaBlubba]

Judge communism by what it did, not what it said.

Please take your irrelevant posts elsewhere.


In other, somewhat relevant news, the Left Party (formerly the left Party Communists) of Sweden chose their new party leader today, as expected Jonas Sjöstedt. He's more to the right (right being used in a very relative sense) than most others, and an excellent debated. He made it clear and said that they would take even more action to distance themselves from their Communist path, and would also aim toward promoting "more realistic economic policies". I'm positive toward this.

I guess the right isn't as happy about it - he's much harder to mudsling at than Lars Ohly (also known as the guy who said "Yeah, I'm a communist" in an interview the 2000's.)

 

[Humes fork]

Please take your irrelevant posts elsewhere.


In other, somewhat relevant news, the Left Party (formerly the left Party Communists) of Sweden chose their new party leader today, as expected Jonas Sjöstedt. He's more to the right (right being used in a very relative sense) than most others, and an excellent debated. He made it clear and said that they would take even more action to distance themselves from their Communist path, and would also aim toward promoting "more realistic economic policies". I'm positive toward this.

I guess the right isn't as happy about it - he's much harder to mudsling at than Lars Ohly (also known as the guy who said "Yeah, I'm a communist" in an interview the 2000's.)

Of course they move slightly to the right. To go on election on a communist platform would be electoral suicide.

But they still promote economic irresponsibility.

Next election, will they demand (again) that all US military bases worldwide be removed? A Swedish magazine actually contacted representatives of the US, Germany and South Korea about it. They were a bit surprised by the idea.

 

[TubbaBlubba]

Of course they move slightly to the right. To go on election on a communist platform would be electoral suicide.

But they still promote economic irresponsibility.

Next election, will they demand (again) that all US military bases worldwide be removed? A Swedish magazine actually contacted representatives of the US, Germany and South Korea about it. They were a bit surprised by the idea.

Have you seen Sjöstedts party's platform yet?

No?

Didn't think so.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

.....children should not be working in factories.

Villages, communities and individuals determined to be "counter-revolutionary" should not be rounded up by the millions and tens of millions and herded into gulags and "re-education camps" to be worked to death and/or just plain slaughtered.

 

[Humes fork]

Have you seen Sjöstedts party's platform yet?

No.

No?

Yes. He says so himself. In other words, what the center-right parties and the Soc Dems implemented in the wake of the crisis in the 90s to save us from such situations in the future he wants to tear down. If his party has its way, economic irresponsibility will be the result, and all of a sudden we'll be the Greece of the north.

Hell freezes over before this guy gets into any government.

Didn't think so.

So you agree that the propsition was moronic?

 

[HoverBoarder]

there's no government, like no government!
workers of the world, UNITE! etc, etc, etc.

It is somewhat ironic that you would take anarchism, which is in itself an oxymoron since it claims to want to get rid of all governments (although the only solutions that it presents is to replace the governments with what would themselves be governments), and pair it with fundamentalist Marx-Engels style Authoritarian style Communism.

One system that claims to not be authoritarian, but just promotes a system of power grabbing strongmen, and another system that requires excessive authoritarian brutal oppressive control to even function at all. Beyond being a giant oxymoron in itself, you choose two of the systems that have the greatest problems of critically thinking about the reality and future repercussions of their actions and paired them together.

There are better ways to get the "workers of the word" to unite. Especially if it were systems that actually improved their lives.

 

[Virus]

Have you seen Sjöstedts party's platform yet?

No?

Didn't think so.

It says on Wikipedia that they ditched communism in the 90's.