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Why vegans are simply better people

You mean, see what happens to me ? What happened to your right to life ?

The legal protection you speak of, as well as your right to life, does nothing to protect you if someone decides to kill you ..
You continue to live at the whim of everyone who has the power to end your life.
Your responsibility is to basically not piss anyone off, who is likely to exercise that whim.

Most of the time, it consists of not doing anything.
 
Skeptical Greg said:
The legal protection you speak of, as well as your right to life, does nothing to protect you if someone decides to kill you ...
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SG, this sounds counter intuitive. Let me ask a some questions. If someone did want to kill me and the police found about it, would they be obligated to try and stop it? If so, would that constitute something? What is the purpose of prosecuting people who are accused of murder or attempted murder? Is the codifying of laws to prohibit murder something to protect people from those who would murder? Or is the rate of murder the same in communities with a strong focus and tracking down and prosecuting murderers the same as those who don't have such a focus?

Please see following video. It doesn't prove anything but I think strong attention to law and order seems correlated with decreased violence.

http://www.ted.com/talks/steven_pinker_on_the_myth_of_violence.html
 
Silly Green Monkey said:
Rights are irretrievably linked to responsibilities, so what responsibilities would animals take on along with the rights we would extend to them? And how are they agreeing to these rights and responsibilities?
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We already extend rights to animals, i.e. it is against the law to treat an animal cruelly. How does this right come with responsibility? And don't we already shoot animals that attack humans? That sounds like a hell of responsibility to me, much more than humans are usually help to. If I bite someone, I might go to gaol for a few moths, if a dog bites me it gets a lethal injection.
 
reverebison said:
http://vimeo.com/28304606

The China Study, the largest study on human nutrition ever conducted in the history of the world comes to the conclusion that meat, dairy, oil, are the very cause of cardiovascular disease.

For those really ignorant individuals out there who care about their own health and more importantly the health of those you love like your spouse and children....watch this link. You don't even need to read...its like watching TV on your couch. the kind of thing you are good at. watch it

http://vimeo.com/28304606
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See, RandFan. Exactly this kind of vegan.

Reverebison : do you need to be insulting to those who are different from you ? People have been eating meat for hundreds of thousands of years. It mustn't be that bad for the health.
 
dafydd said:
And you're going to live forever? At least when I die the doctors will be able to fill in the cause of death space on my death certificate. It will be so embarrassing for you when they have to leave it blank.
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What's funny is, you might live longer than him. He just assumes a vegan lifestyle makes you live longer and healthier.
 
Silly Green Monkey said:
Rights are irretrievably linked to responsibilities, so what responsibilities would animals take on along with the rights we would extend to them? And how are they agreeing to these rights and responsibilities?
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Indeed ! It's been mentionned before but no vegan I know of has ever addressed it. Not Dessi, certainly.

EDIT: I am talking about the idea of right to "freedom", which infants do not have until they are adults.
 
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Dessi said:
Is everyone else here done and ready to let this thread die a dignified death? I am.

Spent waaaaaay too much time here instead of being productive at work. When I have to work on Sunday to make up the lost time I spent talking to people on internet forums, its time to call it quits.
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Why do people on the internet feel the need to imply that they "have a life" when they are about to ditch a conversation in which they are not getting their way, has always fascinated me.

There was a real chance for discussion, here, if you stopped being preachy for a moment.
 
Belz... said:
See, RandFan. Exactly this kind of vegan.

Reverebison : do you need to be insulting to those who are different from you ? People have been eating meat for hundreds of thousands of years. It mustn't be that bad for the health.
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Yeah, except for about the last fifty or so of those hundreds(?) of thousands of years most people died a lot younger, long before the kinds of diseases caused excessive meat consumption became apparent.
 
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Belz... said:
Why do people on the internet feel the need to imply that they "have a life" when they are about to ditch a conversation in which they are not getting their way, has always fascinated me.
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Why? It's seems to me to be an effective way to communicate the fact that posting on forums is a time-consuming exercise and that one is leaving the discussion not because they have been beaten but rather they have proportionately devoted far more time and energy into the debate than the importance it actually warrants.

There was a real chance for discussion, here, if you stopped being preachy for a moment.
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I'm not sure there was, when one person has to try and follow half a dozen different and sometimes quite openly hostile lines of attack then it can be very draining and the chances of their being a discussion, as opposed to one side just shouting down the other, actually become pretty slim. There are times when it is better just to cut your loses and attend to the rest of your life, as Dessi seems to have done.
 
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Belz... said:
What's funny is, you might live longer than him. He just assumes a vegan lifestyle makes you live longer and healthier.
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I know that anecdotes are almost worthless but during the last five years there have been two deaths in my circle of friends, both men and both dropped dead with heart attacks. They were both vegetarians. They both had busy lives and stressful jobs. Stress is the killer, not diet.
 
bit_pattern said:
Yeah, except for about the last fifty or so of those hundreds(?) of thousands of years most people died a lot younger, long before the kinds of diseases caused excessive meat consumption became apparent.
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Operative word, here.

Why? It's seems to me to be an effective way to communicate the fact that posting on forums is a time-consuming exercise and that one is leaving the discussion not because they have been beaten but rather they have proportionately devoted far more time and energy into the debate than the importance it actually warrants.
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No. It seems to me like it's more of an excuse: "I'm not leaving because I'm not able to make my argument properly. I'm leaving because I have a life." Implying that others do not, thereby elevating oneself above your opponents in a debate, is a classic tactic.

I'm not sure there was, when one person has to try and follow half a dozen different and sometimes quite openly hostile lines of attack then it can be very draining and the chances of their being a discussion, as opposed to one side just shouting down the other, actually become pretty slim.
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"Attack". There you go, using emotionally-charged language, like she did.
 
Belz... said:
Operative word, here.
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Not really. There are other reasons not to eat meat than just health anyway. But, honestly, I thought we were in the Harvard thread on dairy food when I made that comment. I agree that non-excessive consumption of meat is perfectly healthy. I just choose not to do it. If anyone has made an argument to the contrary then I probably wouldn't agree with it either.

No. It seems to me like it's more of an excuse: "I'm not leaving because I'm not able to make my argument properly. I'm leaving because I have a life." Implying that others do not, thereby elevating oneself above your opponents in a debate, is a classic tactic.
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I think you're over-analysing it myself. The fact that you feel the need to make snarky observations like this probably go a long way to explaining why some people just give up and can't be bothered with the grief of arguing with you.

"Attack". There you go, using emotionally-charged language, like she did.
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Yeah, it's an attitude problem on your part. I can see why she isn't really interested in going through this kind of a dance with you.
 
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A few points.

  • There is zero question that we evolved to be omnivores.
  • It is likely that nutrient and calorie dense meat made possible the very brains that make possible this debate.
  • Animal food products can be and are a part of a healthy lifestyle for a large percentage of the population.
  • Obesity is epidemic (likely due in part to cultural changes necessitating less calories).
  • As a society we could due with less meat intake.
  • There are environmental concerns associated with the production of animals for food.
  • Factory farming results in much unnecessary suffering.
 
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