UFOs: The Research, the Evidence

[John Albert]

Also, in my Encarta dictionary the word "unknown" is also listed as a synonym for alien.

You mean this one?

 

[GeeMack]

Anecdotal evidence is evidence, just not the kind you'll accept. Why? Because you proclaim that anecdotal evidence = mere claims, but that isn't true. Anecdotal evidence stems from well established scientific principles, most significantly the stimulus response. If someone sees something, the vast majority of the time it is because light reflecting or emitted from an object has stimulated the receptors in the eye, causing impulses to be sent to the brain's visual cortex and interpreted as some object or another. It means something was seen, and an account of what was seen can be communicated from one human being to another because we are the most intelligent of species on the planet and our brain surpasses the intelligence of any machine ... and therefore what we see and think and communicate can be valuable ... very valuable ... whether you want to admit that or not.

Nonsense. Anecdotes are claims, your insistence on dishonestly redefining terms and concepts to suit your fantasy notwithstanding.

 

[RoboTimbo]

Anecdotal evidence is evidence, just not the kind you'll accept. Why? Because you proclaim that anecdotal evidence = mere claims, but that isn't true. Anecdotal evidence stems from well established scientific principles, most significantly the stimulus response. If someone sees something, the vast majority of the time it is because light reflecting or emitted from an object has stimulated the receptors in the eye, causing impulses to be sent to the brain's visual cortex and interpreted as some object or another. It means something was seen, and an account of what was seen can be communicated from one human being to another because we are the most intelligent of species on the planet and our brain surpasses the intelligence of any machine ... and therefore what we see and think and communicate can be valuable ... very valuable ... whether you want to admit that or not.

Your two mistakes here are in assuming that all claimants have actually seen something that they didn't misperceive and that their later interpretation based on wishful thinking is accurate.

Anecdotes are not evidence, they are claims in the context of ZOMGAliens!!!111 beliefs.

 

[ufology]

Unbelievable. Now he's trying to redefine "unknown" to mean alien.

I'm not "redefining" anything ... here are the words, meanings and the source: You will notice the source is not me.

Alien ( adjective ):

unusual, out of the ordinary, striking, interesting, bizarre, mysterious, glamorous, colorful, outlandish, strange, different, exceptional

Synonym: "unknown, unfamiliar, exotic, extraterrestrial ... ")

Source: Encarta World English Dictionary

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Unknown ( adjective )

unidentified, indefinite, mysterious, strange, unfamiliar, unheard of, nameless, anonymous, new, unspecified, undetermined

Synonym: "alien, unfamiliar, strange, mystery ... ")

Source: Encarta World English Dictionary

And again, within the context of the studies done, the word alien is synonymous with the word unknown on more than one level and includes the extraterrestrial possibility , a possibility considered by the study group and others in the early USAF studies, and of course by many other researchers who came later. Remember I've made no claim that alien necessitates ET in any of my posts.

 

[Marduk]

I'm not "redefining" anything ... here are the words, meanings and the source: You will notice the source is not me.

Alien ( adjective ):

unusual, out of the ordinary, striking, interesting, bizarre, mysterious, glamorous, colorful, outlandish, strange, different, exceptional


Synonym: "unknown, unfamiliar, exotic, extraterrestrial ... ")

Unknown ( adjective )

unidentified, indefinite, mysterious, strange, unfamiliar, unheard of, nameless, anonymous, new, unspecified, undetermined

Synonym: "alien, unfamiliar, strange, mystery ... ")

Source: Encarta World English Dictionary

And again, within the context of the studies done, the word alien is synonymous with the word unknown on more than one level and includes the extraterrestrial possibility , a possibility considered by the study group and others in the early USAF studies, and of course by many other researchers who came later. Remember I've made no claim that alien necessitates ET in any of my posts.

aren't you missing the point there, Alien is synonymous with unknown, because aliens have never been shown to exist, not because anything unknown might be alien

 

[RoboTimbo]

I'm not "redefining" anything ... here are the words, meanings and the source: You will notice the source is not me.

Alien ( adjective ):

unusual, out of the ordinary, striking, interesting, bizarre, mysterious, glamorous, colorful, outlandish, strange, different, exceptional

Synonym: "unknown, unfamiliar, exotic, extraterrestrial ... ")

Source: Encarta World English Dictionary

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Unknown ( adjective )

unidentified, indefinite, mysterious, strange, unfamiliar, unheard of, nameless, anonymous, new, unspecified, undetermined

Synonym: "alien, unfamiliar, strange, mystery ... ")

Source: Encarta World English Dictionary

And again, within the context of the studies done, the word alien is synonymous with the word unknown on more than one level and includes the extraterrestrial possibility , a possibility considered by the study group and others in the early USAF studies, and of course by many other researchers who came later. Remember I've made no claim that alien necessitates ET in any of my posts.

So you're saying that all hit and run drivers are aliens? I have an alien in my front pocket because you don't know what it is?

You continue to try to dishonestly redefine words so that you can magick aliens and Alien Space Ships into existence. Again.

I guess you didn't make that New Year's resolution to begin posting honestly.

 

[ufology]

Your two mistakes here are in assuming that all claimants have actually seen something that they didn't misperceive and that their later interpretation based on wishful thinking is accurate.

Anecdotes are not evidence, they are claims in the context of ZOMGAliens!!!111 beliefs.

You are not correct. I've assumed nothing. I've stated a scientific fact. I've also qualified it with the phrase "vast majority of the time", so in reality I've made no assumptions that all observations stem from the stimulus response. You however have made assumptions that are clearly false, e.g. the I have made assumptions when I haven't and that anecdotal evidence doesn't stem from scientifically proven processes involving biology and intelligence.

 

[ufology]

So you're saying that all hit and run drivers are aliens? I have an alien in my front pocket because you don't know what it is?

You continue to try to dishonestly redefine words so that you can magick aliens and Alien Space Ships into existence. Again.

I guess you didn't make that New Year's resolution to begin posting honestly.

All you are doing is taking the issue and putting into an absurd out of context illustration to justify your position. By contrast, I've provided independent objective information. Surely you can do better.

 

[John Albert]

Anecdotal evidence is evidence, just not the kind you'll accept. Why?

Because it cannot be objectively verified.

Because you proclaim that anecdotal evidence = mere claims, but that isn't true.

Anecdotes are stories. Stories are claims. Same difference. You're just mincing words again.

Anecdotal evidence stems from well established scientific principles, most significantly the stimulus response.

This is totally bogus nonsense.

Anecdotes are merely stories told by people, nothing more. They might be partially true, or not true at all. They are never 100% complete, in any case. They could result from misperceptions; they could be total fabrications.

There's absolutely no way to verify them without objective evidence, therefore they're practically useless as evidence all by themselves.

If someone sees something, the vast majority of the time it is because light reflecting or emitted from an object has...

<snipped irrelevant explanation of eyesight>

Yeah, I was also present for that lesson in my third grade science class.

It means something was seen

It does not necessarily mean something was seen. It could mean the person is confused or mistaken, or it could mean they just made it up.

Because we have no way of knowing whether or not they're true, anecdotes are useless without any material evidence to back them up.

and an account of what was seen can be communicated from one human being to another because we are the most intelligent of species on the planet...

<snipped bombastic argument from incredulity about the extraordinary powers of human perception and memory>

You really ought to take the time to actually read and consider the significant amount of evidence you have been directed to, about the fallibility of human perception and memory.

The fact that you're still making this same argument even after all that evidence has been shown, is pretty much analogous to putting your fingers in your ears and going

therefore what we see and think and communicate can be valuable ... very valuable ... whether you want to admit that or not.

It also can be total and complete bull ****, and we have absolutely no way of knowing if all we have is the claim itself.

That is why anecdotes do not stand as evidence for themselves.

 

[AdMan]

I'm not "redefining" anything ... here are the words, meanings and the source: You will notice the source is not me.

Alien ( adjective ):

unusual, out of the ordinary, striking, interesting, bizarre, mysterious, glamorous, colorful, outlandish, strange, different, exceptional

Synonym: "unknown, unfamiliar, exotic, extraterrestrial ... ")

Source: Encarta World English Dictionary

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Unknown ( adjective )

unidentified, indefinite, mysterious, strange, unfamiliar, unheard of, nameless, anonymous, new, unspecified, undetermined

Synonym: "alien, unfamiliar, strange, mystery ... ")

Source: Encarta World English Dictionary

And again, within the context of the studies done, the word alien is synonymous with the word unknown on more than one level and includes the extraterrestrial possibility , a possibility considered by the study group and others in the early USAF studies, and of course by many other researchers who came later. Remember I've made no claim that alien necessitates ET in any of my posts.

Nonsense.

"Unknown" is not a synonym for "alien" when you use "alien" to mean "not of this earth" (or not of our reality)--as you are using the word. If you know something is not of this world, then it is not unknown; it is not unidentified.

You haven't even convinced your ufology buddies to use your personal definition of UFO--why do you insist on trying to convince the readers of this forum?

If you want to refer to your supposed alien craft, then why don't you just say alien craft, instead of continuing to try to redefine perfectly well understood terms?

 

[GeeMack]

I'm not "redefining" anything ...

Actually you are, and the dishonesty of the argument is transparent. Your argument is an attempt to legitimatize the fantasy that UFOs are alien craft. In that context, a position you have repeatedly and vigorously tried to defend, you do not mean and have never meant that alien is simply something unidentified. You know that, and all of us know that. So really, you indeed are attempting to redefine terms.

Here's a thought. You recognize when your arguments have failed. Take responsibility for the failure rather than trying to pass it off on other people. Abandon the failed arguments for what they are. And if you can find a shred of something new and different, an angle that you haven't tried and which hasn't already failed so many times like all your previous arguments, give it a whirl. But this persistent bleating of the same old dishonest arguments really isn't going to work.

 

[RoboTimbo]

You are not correct. I've assumed nothing.

Yes, I am correct. It was in the post of yours that I quoted where you were assuming that all claimants had seen something. Go back and read what you wrote. You set up a strawman. You do that a lot.

I've stated a scientific fact. I've also qualified it with the phrase "vast majority of the time", so in reality I've made no assumptions that all observations stem from the stimulus response.

That's funny, you state your assumption again while claiming that you made no assumptions.

You however have made assumptions that are clearly false, e.g. the I have made assumptions when I haven't and that anecdotal evidence doesn't stem from scientifically proven processes involving biology and intelligence.

No, your mistake here is in claiming falsely that I've made assumptions when I was simply quoting your own words, no assumptions needed. Anecdotes are claims. You say that anecdotes are evidence and they reflect visual sightings that have been made. You've entirely discounted hoaxes such as yours where there was no sighting made at all. That is dishonest of you and shows the assumption you were making again.

 

[RoboTimbo]

All you are doing is taking the issue and putting into an absurd out of context illustration to justify your position. By contrast, I've provided independent objective information. Surely you can do better.

No, you said they were synonyms. Look up the definition of synonym. You claim that all hit and run drivers are aliens becuase it is synonymous with unknown. You claim that I have an alien in my pocket because you don't know what it is. Are you changing your mind about redefining words now?

 

[Astrophotographer]

Not to interrupt everybody's fun here but I have finished and posted the latest issue of SUNlite.
http://home.comcast.net/~tprinty/UFO/SUNlite4_1.pdf
The reason I post it here because it addresses one of the premier cases in UFOlogy, the RB-47 case (a favorite of the OP, who has left the building). Enjoy reading the issue.

 

[ufology]

aren't you missing the point there, Alien is synonymous with unknown, because aliens have never been shown to exist, not because anything unknown might be alien

I've not missed the point at all. In the context that it is being used, alien is synonymous with unknown because after careful evaluation by the study group, UFOs are so strange and mysterious that they could not be identified as manmade objects or phenomena. By logical extension they therefore seem to fall outside the boudaries of our global civilization, and that makes them alien the same way Caucasians were once alien to North America or an invading organism is alien to our body, or a non-national is alien to the country he or she is residing. Alien implies extraterrestrial but does not necessitate it.

 

[ehcks]

The above being said, lack of proof positive still does not equal proof negative

It's like you're trying to annoy us...

Ok, here's my claim: I am standing right behind you. You can't prove that I'm not. The lack of positive evidence showing that I'm standing right behind you is not proof that I am not standing right behind you.

Therefore I am, in fact, standing right behind you.

 

[Marduk]

I've not missed the point at all. In the context that it is being used, alien is synonymous with unknown because after careful evaluation by the study group, UFOs are so strange and mysterious that they could not be identified as manmade objects or phenomena. By logical extension they therefore seem to fall outside the boudaries of our global civilization, .

riiight, so because of a lack of determining evidence they could not be identified, so you have decided that they can be identified as something that has no evidence for its existence, and that doesn't seem like a completely dumbass thing to claim to you ?


btw, fireflies are not manmade objects or phenomena, are they ?

 

[RoboTimbo]

I've not missed the point at all. In the context that it is being used, alien is synonymous with unknown because after careful evaluation by the study group, UFOs are so strange and mysterious that they could not be identified as manmade objects or phenomena. By logical extension they therefore seem to fall outside the boudaries of our global civilization, and that makes them alien the same way Caucasians were once alien to North America or an invading organism is alien to our body, or a non-national is alien to the country he or she is residing. Alien implies extraterrestrial but does not necessitate it.

Now you're claiming that oil well fires and your hoax are aliens. Do you see why your dishonest attempt at redefining words will backfire on you? Which planet do you think the alien in my pocket is from? Are all hit and run drivers reptoids, do you think?

 

[GeeMack]

OK we're making some progress. Thank you. Now to continue, I've already admitted that I don't have sufficient evidence to scientifically demonstrate that Earth is being visted or has been visited by aliens from another star system. How many times do I need to say that before the skeptics stop bashing me over the head with it?

It's likely you'll be called on it as long as you keep this nonsense posted on the USI alien believers club website...

USI recognizes the physical existence of UFOs as outlined in the official USAF definition and concurs with the original Estimate Of The Situation reached by Project Sign to the extent that some UFOs are probably extraterrestrial in origin, or at the very least, alien to human civilization. Most importantly, USI stands with all the eye-witnesses who know from the evidence of their own conscious and unimpaired senses and logical reasoning, that Earth is being visited by objects of alien origin.

... where it is glaringly obvious that "alien" is being used differently than the dishonest redefinition offered here in this discussion.

The above being said, lack of proof positive still does not equal proof negative, and there is plenty of inconclusive ( from a scientific point of view ) evidence to warrant further study. So how about providing some useful commentary in that spirit? Help sift out the fake videos and accounts using facts and logic rather than prejudicially ruling them all unworthy of investigation or consideration.

Actually that is the job of the alien believers, those who make the claim that some UFOs are alien craft. That is your job because it is your claim. It is the responsibility of those making that claim to do the work. It is their responsibility to falsify their null hypothesis, which is, in case you've forgotten...

"All UFOs are of mundane origin."​

So far the "UFOs = aliens" believers here have willfully abandoned their responsibility of the burden of proof and dishonestly tried to foist that responsibility onto the rational cooperative skeptics. Of course the helpful skeptics have done a fine job of pointing out the "ufologists'" continued failures, nonsensical arguments, logical fallacies, and analyzing some of the silly stuff the "ufologists" try to pawn off as evidence, but it really isn't the skeptics' job to do all the work even though the "ufologists" aren't doing it.

Let's try to accomplish something positive in 2012.

Sure. Let's get right down to the nitty-gritty, shall we? How about that J. Randall Murphy UFO hoax? Let's analyze that one, show how it contains typical characteristics of a hoax, show how it doesn't meet any standard of objective evidence, and get the perpetrator of the hoax to remove it from the web site where it is publicly posted. How about that for positive? A little positivity, honesty, and objectivity wouldn't hurt the book sales, would it?

 

[abaddon]

perhaps the standard of your evidence needs to be higher, or actually present

OK, metaphorical punch it the shoulder. Gave me a LOL.