Does anyone in the US really celebrate Kwanzaa?

[Gazpacho]

What you are talking about is some sort of politically correct meaningless phrases.

The words I used should be understandable by any high-school graduate, but dictionaries are available if you need them.

Well, let's take a look at the guy that started it. Maulana Karenga. Nice guy, right?

You didn't see me say it. You're not the only one who can look up subjects on Wikipedia.

 

[Gazpacho]

Amazingly, there are some people on these fora who do not understand the difference between racial and cultural and seem to believe them fully interchangeable. I know that is hard to believe, but I have observed this amazing level of ignorance and incompetence even in threads over the last two weeks or so.

If you don't want people reading "culture" as a code word, then don't mystify it as something that is inherent in people and never changes despite observable evidence of change. It's really simple.

 

[Draca]

It is interesting how it is a relatively common thing to hear a multi-cultural holiday greeting of Happy HanukkahXmasKwanzaa tossed out by so many when I do not actually know anyone who celebrates Kwanzaa. Why is it included then? None of my black friends celebrate it, they all celebrate Christmas. The same is true in large city school holiday pageants. There are posters hung to include all the different groups. Kwanzaa posters are always included. That perhaps is something that should be re-evaluated if Kwanzaa has died off. I don't use the multi-cultural phrase myself. I prefer to either give a Christmas or Hanukkah greeting depending on who I'm talking to. I'll give an occasional Happy Holidays if I'm not sure what would be appropriate. Most people take a Merry Christmas as the cheerful greeting or goodbye it is meant as.

Does anyone know if Kwanzaa was meant to replace Christmas as a winter celebration for black Americans or was it meant only to be cultural? If it was meant to be cultural it may have done better to separate it from Christmas and celebrate in January sometime instead. That would make a lot more sense because MLK day and black history month are both in January I believe. There are 3 major holidays in a row with Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Years. I doubt many would like to add a 4th to the mix around the same time.

 

[bynmdsue]

Draca, Black History Month is February.

 

[Draca]

Answering my own question - from wiki:

------------------
Maulana Karenga of the US Organization created Kwanzaa in 1966 as the first specifically African American holiday .[2] Karenga said his goal was to "give Blacks an alternative to the existing holiday and give Blacks an opportunity to celebrate themselves and history, rather than simply imitate the practice of the dominant society."[3] The name Kwanzaa derives from the Swahili phrase matunda ya kwanza, meaning first fruits of the harvest.[4] The choice of Swahili, an East African language, reflects its status as a symbol of Pan-Africanism, especially in the 1960s.

Kwanzaa is a celebration that has its roots in the black nationalist movement of the 1960s, and was established as a means to help African Americans reconnect with their African cultural and historical heritage by uniting in meditation and study of African traditions and Nguzu Saba, the "seven principles of African Heritage" which Karenga said "is a communitarian African philosophy".

During the early years of Kwanzaa, Karenga said that it was meant to be an alternative to Christmas, that Jesus was psychotic, and that Christianity was a white religion that black people should shun.[5] However, as Kwanzaa gained mainstream adherents, Karenga altered his position so that practicing Christians would not be alienated, then stating in the 1997 Kwanzaa: A Celebration of Family, Community, and Culture, "Kwanzaa was not created to give people an alternative to their own religion or religious holiday."
----------------------

Reading the history based in angry black militarism, I hope Kwanzaa does die off. It reminds me of Muhammad Ali becoming Muslim based on that he wasn't going to follow 'a white blond blue-eyed God'. Not a very good reason to become something else in my opinion. His religious views may have grown since that time. I happened to have watched the movie Ali in the last few weeks and found that portion of his story disturbing. Reading the history of Kwanzaa leaves a similar feeling. It seems more anti-something than celebrating something.

 

[Draca]

Draca, Black History Month is February.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[Noztradamus]

There are some communities where it's stronger than others. Frankly, I don't think many people on this forum are particularly close to the communities where it's more widespread.

I don't get the argument that it's not a "real holiday." How is it any less "real" than any other holiday?

It's probably more important as an affirmation of Identity Politics that a real holiday.

Less real than International Talk Like a Pirate Day.

 

[bit_pattern]

I'd honestly never heard of it before I watched Futurama

 

[Pup]

Kwanzaa is a celebration that has its roots in the black nationalist movement of the 1960s, and was established as a means to help African Americans reconnect with their African cultural and historical heritage by uniting in meditation and study of African traditions and Nguzu Saba, the "seven principles of African Heritage" which Karenga said "is a communitarian African philosophy".

During the early years of Kwanzaa, Karenga said that it was meant to be an alternative to Christmas, that Jesus was psychotic, and that Christianity was a white religion that black people should shun.[5]

I can sorta see where that was coming from, back in the day.

One of the major ways that pro-slavery advocates in the antebellum era justified slavery, was that it Christianized blacks who would otherwise be left heathens in Africa.

If someone was reacting to that in the climate of the 1960s-1970s, sure, I can see that giving up Christianity would be part of throwing off the lingering effects of slavery and undoing what had been forcibly done to blacks in America by whites.

It's just, well... it's hard to unring a bell. The various African-based cultures were lost in the upheaval of forced transportation to America, so trying to replace that new culture with an even newer one, could still only be a movement forward, not back to the older cultures.

 

[Information Analyst]

Well, some people have been known to call black people in Africa, who had never left Africa, whose ancestors had never left Africa, "African-American Africans"...

I certainly remember reading a CNN report about a Black British person that described her as "African-American" despite the fact she was clearly British, and the event that made her newsworthy took place in the UK.

 

[Juniversal]

Kwanzaa exists to teach African-Americans the same love of their ancestral land that exists among Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans, Chinese-Americans, Jewish Americans and Mexican-Americans, while living in a culture rife with stereotypes and presumptions -- and oh yes, racist "jokes." It has nothing to do with that stuff you said.

I'm black and I honestly don't know anyone who celebrates Kwanzaa but you make a good point. Black american culture is distinctly American with essentially no semblance of traditional African cultural underpinnings.

Reading the history based in angry black militarism, I hope Kwanzaa does die off. It reminds me of Muhammad Ali becoming Muslim based on that he wasn't going to follow 'a white blond blue-eyed God'. Not a very good reason to become something else in my opinion. His religious views may have grown since that time. I happened to have watched the movie Ali in the last few weeks and found that portion of his story disturbing. Reading the history of Kwanzaa leaves a similar feeling. It seems more anti-something than celebrating something.

Independent of the origins of Kwanzaa I think the current role of Kwanzaa is commendable (even though I don't celebrate it I see value in it's current purpose). Particularly because black folks in this country have a cultural identity that was molded by the likes of slavery, poverty, discrimination and sports and music.


Certain ethnic groups were able to exploit there ethnic identity for gain (Italians and Asians for example) the primary cultural hallmarks of african americans culture is the aforementioned slavery, poverty discrimination, sports and music.


Recently I had the realization that the black community's cultural equivalent of a china town or a little Italy is the ghetto. And just as Italians (or certain Asian ethnic groups) embraced their cultural identity for financial gain, we're doing the same to much more destructive results as our ghetto/hip-hop culture seemingly glamorizes the ghetto life style and makes it hip + the ability to exploit it for financial gain (See: gangsta rap in particular). That being said if we had an African cultural identity to embrace and exploit as opposed to our current largely destructive culture I believe we could flourish.

 

[MatildaGage]

his goal was to "give Blacks an alternative to the existing holiday and give Blacks an opportunity to celebrate themselves and history, rather than simply imitate the practice of the dominant society."[/B]... established as a means to help African Americans reconnect with their African cultural and historical heritage by uniting in meditation and study of African traditions and Nguzu Saba, the "seven principles of African Heritage" which Karenga said "is a communitarian African philosophy".

At first the article says the holiday was for "blacks" but then it talks only about Africa. All American "blacks" do not consider themselves "African-Americans"--i.e., Caribbeans.

 

[Bob001]

Possibly interesting:
http://www.slate.com/articles/life/faithbased/2005/12/bring_out_the_kwanzaa_kinara.html

It sounds like Kwanzaa was originally a '70s-era consciousness-raising activity. If there's less interest now, maybe there's less need.

 

[AlBell]

Works for a whole bunch of people, Al. There's a whole big world out there that's not really like the Donna Reed Show family. Get used to it.

I'm used to it, just don't like it. Not much Kwanza happenings in either DC or Richmond.

Well, not so much on the internet where you're nice and safe and sound in the glow of your monitor, but in the real world it sure does. Take a walk down to the center of any city and stand on a corner and educate the locals as to how you think Ebonics be funny and that everbody ought to go over to Popeye's and have some nice fried chicken for Kwanzaa.

I stay out of the 'hood as much as possible, nearing 100% of the time. But maybe if I'm giving away collard greens & ham? Nah, I think not.

Please. And be sure to video tape it. Otherwise you're just another fat-mouth conservative spewing nastiness on the internet. (As is your right and I will defend that right. Just as I will defend my right to call you out on it.)

If the clodhoppers fit....

Don't hold your breath waiting for it on youtube ... actually, please do. And roll around on the floor kicking so your tantrum is "real".

 

[Caper]

My wife is a teacher. When she started out she was in a school with alot of black students. The school covered and celebrated Kwanzaa...... She didn't think any black students celebrated Kwanzaa outside of school.

We are in Canada so celebrating Kwanzaa is a no brainer.

One time my wife went to a conference where they talked about... I don't know.... how to spot racisim in the ciriculum. Some of it was kind of funny (in only how obvious it was)... there was a illustrated childrens book from the 70's about prison where all the guards were white and all the prisoners were black.

Anyway my wife came back at the end of the day and was telling me about the conference and she asked me if I knew where the word "picnic" came from. She goes on how it was invented during slavery times where white families would gather eat food and cap of the day by "picking" a (insert ugly racial word here).... and then hanging them. Hense teachers were to avoid using the word picnic. The second she told me this my skeptical spidy senses started to tingle... it took a about a 2 minute google search to realize it was an urban legand..... the things people fall for.... (my mom tried to tell me last week that a chineses resturant had to be shut down because they found dozens of cat corpses hanging in the basement)

 

[mhaze]

The words I used should be understandable by any high-school graduate, but dictionaries are available if you need them.


You didn't see me say it. You're not the only one who can look up subjects on Wikipedia.

No kidding? It took about 5 seconds to find that your Marxist, violent hero generated a fake holiday to express his crazy wacko schemes.

It could be argued that the holiday stands on it's own merits irregardless of the founder.

But then we'd have to deal with the meaningless politically correct and flowery words you've brought in.

Let me give it a try in the spirit of the Founder:

Have a happy beat-your-wife-all-you-want, Communist-oriented holiday full of hate toward whites, and may your days in prison be full of peace and joy or not as the case may be.

Wow....

That's really, really weird.

 

[Gazpacho]

That attitude can't be good for your blood pressure.

 

[mhaze]

.....Recently I had the realization that the black community's cultural equivalent of a china town or a little Italy is the ghetto. And just as Italians (or certain Asian ethnic groups) embraced their cultural identity for financial gain, we're doing the same to much more destructive results as our ghetto/hip-hop culture seemingly glamorizes the ghetto life style and makes it hip + the ability to exploit it for financial gain (See: gangsta rap in particular). That being said if we had an African cultural identity to embrace and exploit as opposed to our current largely destructive culture I believe we could flourish.

Having traveled in Africa and seen cultures there I disagree totally. Blacks in the USA are far, far better of culturally - and more unified. In Africa, there are no "blacks". There are tribes, and tribal identities. You see them group at bus stops, and only get on a bus with "their people". I could go on and on, but it's really by our standards, pretty weird. Yes there are some that have gotten past this but by and large, on the street, no.

Your ghetto is a problem? Don't even begin to compare it with Durban at night.

 

[Baloney]

Why don't you ax the person who started the thread?

Is someone trying to give me the ax?! ...ohhhhhh, I see what you did there.

 

[Robrob]

It was an attempt at providing a cultural identity. It seems that we might have progressed far enough in the direction of equality to where it's not that necessary and it's slowly vanishing.

I do find it hilarious the sorts of people who are affronted by it. As if just the knowledge "those people" have their own holiday keeps them from sleeping soundly at night.