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Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

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Saggy said:
His post is entirely serious and unfortunately effective, Zionists have laid claim to the right to level any insult whatever at anyone who challenges them, and to have it accepted or even applauded by the cultural arbiters. Thus you and Wroclaw feel it's perfectly fine to associate people who disagree with you with pedophiles. I was/am actually worried that I'll be suspended for pointing out how truly degenerate these tactics are.
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Step back a moment. What exactly is a "Zionist"? Can you define it?
 
This discussion has its amusing aspect, oddly enough. Bold revisionists condemn victors' history and the course of the West, under Zionist power, since WW2. They propose a counter-history to shatter the West's lies and myths. They believe that they stand bravely outside the post-war consensus and are the ones positioned to challenge it. But then someone reminds revisionists how far outside that world they stand - and Saggy starts complaining that he's being insulted and ostracized. No, Saggy, you chose to stand where you stand and this discussion is simply reflecting that. Take your lumps and stop whining.
 
Saggy said:
His post is entirely serious and unfortunately effective, Zionists have laid claim to the right to level any insult whatever at anyone who challenges them, and to have it accepted or even applauded by the cultural arbiters. Thus you and Wroclaw feel it's perfectly fine to associate people who disagree with you with pedophiles. I was/am actually worried that I'll be suspended for pointing out how truly degenerate these tactics are.
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And the Holocaust myths allow Zionists and Jewish people carte blanche.

Some good examples of the Holocaust pass.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/18/mike-greenberg-mlk-gaffe_n_427558.html

Controversy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dana_Jacobson#Controversy
At a roast for co-workers Mike Greenberg and Mike Golic in January 2008, an allegedly intoxicated Jacobson reportedly cursed the University of Notre Dame, Jesus, and Touchdown Jesus.[1][2] ESPN and Jacobson both released a statement apologizing for any offense given to those offended by the comments [1]. Jacobson was suspended from ESPN for one week. Upon returning from her suspension, she apologized on air for her behavior and comments. No video or transcript of the roast was ever released.
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Gaffe and Controversy? That's a laugh. They got the Holocaust pass.

Howard Stern, SNL, Andrew Dice Clay, Don Rickles. They also get the Holocaust pass.
 
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Cyrix686 said:
It makes him feel good to post asinine offensive inane tripe like the above. The rabbit will try just about anything to annoy people. Though he's the one who is socially dead.
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The problem it seems to me is that Hoaxsters behave in ways that are so foreign to way normal people behave, that it raises the question what is the lesion the lies underneath it. Classically it has been assumed that it is simply social Darwinism being played out by a group that identifies to powerfully with its ethnic identity. But most Hoaxsters claim they are not Jewish - and I have no grounds to disbelieve them, which leaves open the question what is the motivation for their aberrant behaviour.

The worry is, that if Hoaxsters are screwed up when they are children, they will screw up children themselves (I mean aside from teaching them nonsense in schools).

This creates a vicious circle of Hoaxsterism that needs to be broken.
 
Did you not read my response rabbit?

Asinine, inane tripe.

That does not mean that you should then expand on your theory with me,

It means

Asinine, inane tripe.
 
Hey folks. Keeping it civil in here I see. I kid, I kid. Whilst waiting for my books to arrive I stopped by my local book store and picked up "Auschwitz: A New History" by Lawrence Rees. Nick Terry or LemmeCaution, there is a passage which interested me and maybe you can answer a couple questions I have on it.

"In Berlin, Heinrich Himmler sat and wrote the diffidently entitled "Some Thoughts on the Treatment of the Alien Population of the East.". Himmler, one of the most astute power brokers in the Nazi State, knew that it was often unwise to commit thoughts to paper. At the highest level, Nazi policy was frequently formulated verbally. Once his views were on paper Himmler realized that they could be dissected by his rivals--and, like an leading Nazi, he had many enemies who were always seeking to seize some of his powers for themselves. The situation in Poland, which the Germans had occupied since the autumn of 1939, however, was such that he felt he had to make an exception and prepare a written document for Hitler. The document he wrote is one of the most significant in history of Nazi racial policy, not least because the words Himmler committed to paper were to clarify the context within which the new camp at Auschwitz was to function."

What was in the document that Himmler wrote?
Is it true that Nazi policy was "frequently formulated verbally"?
Is the document available to view today?
 
CleverClogs82 said:
What was in the document that Himmler wrote?
Is it true that Nazi policy was "frequently formulated verbally"?
Is the document available to view today?
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Document submitted to Hitler by Himmler: I believe that this is Himmler memorandum of 25 May 1940. In this memorandum on Jewish policy, Himmler suggested to Hitler "seeing the concept 'Jew' . . . completely extinguished by the possibility of a huge emigration of all the Jews to Africa or one of the colonies." This was in May 1940, when plans like the Madagascar resettlement plan were being considered as a way to remove all Jews from Germany's sphere of control. Himmler famously also noted in this memo his not wanting to use "the Bolshevist method of the physical extermination of a people" because this method in his view was "un-Germanic and impossible." Hitler called the memo "good and correct," and in its wake both the Foreign Ministry (Franz Rademacher) and Heydrich in the RHSA were working on schemes to remove Jews from Europe to Madagascar. This is covered well in Longerich's book Holocaust; the time period was about a year before the German invasion of the Soviet Union and the start of large-scale murder operations against the Jewish population there and over a year and a half before the first death camps went into operation. Longerich concludes that, impractical as the expulsion of Jews to an SS-colony in Madagascar was, it "is precisely the lack of feasibility in this plan that points up the cynical, calculating nature of German Judenpolitik: the idea that millions of European Jews would be deported to Madagascar for years and years--without even considering the 'punishment measures' that Rademacher envisaged--a large proportion of the transported Jews would presumably die there relatively quickly as victims of the hostile living conditions they would meet, all this makes it perfectly clear that behind this project lay the intention of bringing about the physical annihilation of the Jews under German rule." This plan was a replacement for an earlier, failed plan to resettle Jews into a "reservation" in Poland. Longerich: "For a period of a few months, then, 'Madagascar' stood for 'anywhere' that might permit the execution of a 'final solution,' or in other words for the option of initiating a slow and painful end for the Jews of Europe in conditions inimical to life."

Verbal formulation of policy: Yes, and also communicated verbally. I will find references for this later, as I am not near my secondary sources at the moment.

Copy of the memorandum: I believe that the document is in English translation in J. Noakes & G. Pridham, Nazism 1919-1845, Vol. 3 (1988). I haven't read it and don't own this book.
 
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LemmyCaution said:
Document submitted to Hitler by Himmler: I believe that this is Himmler memorandum of 25 May 1940. In this memorandum on Jewish policy, Himmler suggested to Hitler "seeing the concept 'Jew' . . . completely extinguished by the possibility of a huge emigration of all the Jews to Africa or one of the colonies." This was in May 1940, when plans like the Madagascar resettlement plan were being considered as a way to remove all Jews from Germany's sphere of control. Himmler famously also noted in this memo his not wanting to use "the Bolshevist method of the physical extermination of a people" because this method in his view was "un-Germanic and impossible." Hitler called the memo "good and correct," and in its wake both the Foreign Ministry (Franz Rademacher) and Heydrich in the RHSA were working on schemes to remove Jews from Europe to Madagascar. This is covered well in Longerich's book Holocaust; the time period was about a year before the German invasion of the Soviet Union and the start of large-scale murder operations against the Jewish population there and over a year and a half before the first death camps went into operation. Longerich concludes that, impractical as the expulsion of Jews to an SS-colony in Madagascar was, it "is precisely the lack of feasibility in this plan that points up the cynical, calculating nature of German Judenpolitik: the idea that millions of European Jews would be deported to Madagascar for years and years--without even considering the 'punishment measures' that Rademacher envisaged--a large proportion of the transported Jews would presumably die there relatively quickly as victims of the hostile living conditions they would meet, all this makes it perfectly clear that behind this project lay the intention of bringing about the physical annihilation of the Jews under German rule." This plan was a replacement for an earlier, failed plan to resettle Jews into a "reservation" in Poland. Longerich: "For a period of a few months, then, 'Madagascar' stood for 'anywhere' that might permit the execution of a 'final solution,' or in other words for the option of initiating a slow and painful end for the Jews of Europe in conditions inimical to life."

Verbal formulation of policy: Yes, and also communicated verbally. I will find references for this later, as I am not near my secondary sources at the moment.

Copy of the memorandum: I believe that the document is in English translation in J. Noakes & G. Pridham, Nazism 1919-1845, Vol. 3 (1988). I haven't read it and don't own this book.
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Golly, Madagascar is high on my wishlist of countries to visit. I had no idea it was such a hell-hole.

How was it the Afrikaans people manage to thrive so just across the water?
 
Just in case the new guy takes LGR seriously:

little grey rabbit said:
I don't really mind one way or the other. But on a personal note, it will be a very sad day indeed when I can't get people online hopping mad by saying "The Illuminati did it" or tell them about the One True Crematorium at Birkenau
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little grey rabbit said:
Well, I believe I can get people hopping mad.
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He's an admitted troll, only here to spam his useless blog.
 
CleverClogs82 said:
Hey folks. Keeping it civil in here I see. I kid, I kid. Whilst waiting for my books to arrive I stopped by my local book store and picked up "Auschwitz: A New History" by Lawrence Rees. Nick Terry or LemmeCaution, there is a passage which interested me and maybe you can answer a couple questions I have on it.

"In Berlin, Heinrich Himmler sat and wrote the diffidently entitled "Some Thoughts on the Treatment of the Alien Population of the East.". Himmler, one of the most astute power brokers in the Nazi State, knew that it was often unwise to commit thoughts to paper. At the highest level, Nazi policy was frequently formulated verbally. Once his views were on paper Himmler realized that they could be dissected by his rivals--and, like an leading Nazi, he had many enemies who were always seeking to seize some of his powers for themselves. The situation in Poland, which the Germans had occupied since the autumn of 1939, however, was such that he felt he had to make an exception and prepare a written document for Hitler. The document he wrote is one of the most significant in history of Nazi racial policy, not least because the words Himmler committed to paper were to clarify the context within which the new camp at Auschwitz was to function."

What was in the document that Himmler wrote?
Is it true that Nazi policy was "frequently formulated verbally"?
Is the document available to view today?
Click to expand...

1) Google "Library of Congress Military Legal Resources". find the loc.gov subsite of the same name

2) scroll down and click on 'Nuremberg trials'

3) click on the last of the three options, for the 'Green Series'.

4) observe 15 or so volumes, go to Vol XIII of the Ministries Case

5) download this PDF, then go to page 147 of the trial - the volume has a few frontispiece pages, but you should be within about 10 pages of the document, NO-1880.
 
TheRedWorm said:
Just in case the new guy takes LGR seriously:





He's an admitted troll, only here to spam his useless blog.
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Not much point in promoting it in this sub-forum.

BTW, does Longrich discuss the fact that the Madgascar solution was first proposed and promoted by the Polish government in the late 1930's?
It wasn't a scheme the Nazis just pulled out of their backside.
 
TheRedWorm said:
You promote it by having it in your sig, little one.
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Not disputing that, chickpea. But if the reason I was here was solely to promote it, I wouldn't be stuck in Conspiracy Theories but roaming around Religion and Philosopy, Comuters and other branches. I assume 25 people read this thread tops.
 
little grey rabbit said:
Not much point in promoting it in this sub-forum.

BTW, does Longrich discuss the fact that the Madgascar solution was first proposed and promoted by the Polish government in the late 1930's?
It wasn't a scheme the Nazis just pulled out of their backside.
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You should email him. He has had very little time in the archives, and he needs help from you. He traces Madagascar schemes back to the late 1800s, but he fails to mention each and every such notion of European anti-semites, so perhaps you can straighten him out?
 
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