Explain Atheism to Justinian2

[Complexity]

Justinian2, which, if either, of these contradictory statements is true?

Justinian2 -

We are still waiting to your response to this question. It was in post 36 in this thread.

There is no question that you lied.

We'd like to know which, if either, of your statements that were quoted were the truth.

Personally, I suspect that both of them were lies.

There is no point in discussing anything further until you answer this question.

 

[jhunter1163]

In fairness to Justinian, there are places in the US where it is possible to grow up in such an insulated fashion. I know this, because I grew up in one.

Spokane, WA in my youth was about 99.44% white. I never even met a black person until I entered high school, and even then there was one black student out of about 750 total kids in my school. I never met an (admitted) atheist until I left town and moved to Seattle. Same with gay people (at least, people who were out then; I know from my old friends that there were several gay people in my graduating class).

As for the OP's questions;

I celebrate Christmas with my family. I am a closeted atheist; it makes things smoother at home with the wife (a cradle Catholic) and her family.

I support what would be called "traditional family values" with the exception of being firmly pro-choice and mildly pro-gay marriage.

I work for a medical group, handling accounts payable.

I donate to Catholic relief organizations, as well as the American Red Cross and the Humane Society.

I vote based on the how the candidates' stated positions mesh with my own, although I do have a slight Republican bias.

 

[Complexity]

(jhunter - don't take this personally - your post simply reminded me of this, which I wanted to say a few days ago)

I do wish people would quit saying 'admitted atheist'.

I grew up with the term 'admitted homosexual' and hated it - I don't think there is anything wrong with me and I have nothing to 'admit'.

The same applies to atheism.

/microrant

 

[joolz]

And now I see these numbers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion#cite_note-dentsu-4

Non-religion is MUCH higher in the world than in the USA.

Maybe now you understand why a lot of folk in the world shudder when the US president seems to put his god or the tooth fairy or whatever above human rights. Also why many of us despair when we read claims that US citizens are unlikely to vote for a president who doesn't believe in mythical beings.

Atheists aren't as limited in their political choices. I'd vote for someone of any religion/non-religion if I agreed with their policies. That's more rational than voting for someone with bad policies just because they go to church.

Plus I reckon the figure for the UK is too low. There are loads of churches closing.

joolz

 

[R.A.F.]

I'm unlikely to EVER vote for Republicans who are proudly and forcefully bigoted against my rights as an LGBT American.

I've posted the following before, and I'll post it again...

The republicans are the party of HATE...among other groups, they particularly HATE women, so I am amazed that there are ANY women republicans, at all.


Maybe a woman republican could explain it to me, but I doubt it.

 

[R.A.F.]

I don't thing there is anything wrong with me...

There isn't.

Just wanted to put that "on the record".

 

[Complexity]

There isn't.

Just wanted to put that "on the record".

 

[Justinian2]

What do atheists do for Christmas?
I celebrate Christmas with my family. Presents, food, vacation from work.

What are your mores?
Strong influence by Peter Singer. I view animal and human rights as essentially the same thing, pro-choice for some deeply philosophical reasons related to the way I view human rights, pro-legalization of soft drugs with a tendency to extend this position to all drugs across the board. I very strongly support LGBT rights.

What is your profession?
Software developer.

What is your charity?
See here. I give $1000-5000 to charity every year. This year, I gave to PFLAG, RCGA, GoGLBT, PETA, ASPCA, Sea Shepard Society, Special Olympics, NORML, Erowid. Also made several donations to open source software projects that caught my attention. I've made also made political contributions to the Democratic National Convention.

How do you vote?
Democrat. Voted Libertarian a few times. Following from this discussion, I'm unlikely to EVER vote for Republicans who are proudly and forcefully bigoted against my rights as an LGBT American.

I am not for either political party but in the past I voted for Obama and Reagan. Now I just write in random selection from a pool of college graduates.

I allow gays their rights because I think natural selection will make gays extinct eventually.

I don't give to any charity where the CEO gets paid a big salary.

I am for the legalization of soft drugs, but I don't use them and won't.

I supported the Libertarian party in the past.

I have developed software.

I am strongly for human rights.

I am for small businesses but not for Wall Street.

I strongly support Scientologists who want to be happier more sane and brighter as verified by psychological tests approved and used by psychologists.

 

[Justinian2]

Actually, you can be pretty certain the numbers are much higher. Its the same in Australia.

When people are asked for their religion (on a census maybe) they generally respond with the religion of their parents or family. When I was a kid I answered "CoE" for a while, even though we'd never been to church.

As atheism becomes more acceptable I think youll find that slowly the real numbers will be revealed.

Atheists have been growing in numbers especially outside the USA. In the home town of my childhood the number of atheists was zero as far as I knew. My father was so mundane and worldly that he inadvertantly caused me to be a Scientologist. My father was a flat-worlder and an Ivy league graduate whose father was a 33rd degree Mason. And I am an OT8. My sons are Christian. Religion alternates.

My observation is that children frequently believe oppositely from their parents.

 

[AdMan]

I allow gays their rights because I think natural selection will make gays extinct eventually.

Your utter ignorance, or apparent ignorance, is not surprising.

Why have you lied in this forum?

 

[Justinian2]

In fairness to Justinian, there are places in the US where it is possible to grow up in such an insulated fashion. I know this, because I grew up in one.

Spokane, WA in my youth was about 99.44% white. I never even met a black person until I entered high school, and even then there was one black student out of about 750 total kids in my school. I never met an (admitted) atheist until I left town and moved to Seattle. Same with gay people (at least, people who were out then; I know from my old friends that there were several gay people in my graduating class).

As for the OP's questions;

I celebrate Christmas with my family. I am a closeted atheist; it makes things smoother at home with the wife (a cradle Catholic) and her family.

I support what would be called "traditional family values" with the exception of being firmly pro-choice and mildly pro-gay marriage.

I work for a medical group, handling accounts payable.

I donate to Catholic relief organizations, as well as the American Red Cross and the Humane Society.

I vote based on the how the candidates' stated positions mesh with my own, although I do have a slight Republican bias.

A mainstream American.

 

[ynot]

In fairness to Justinian, there are places in the US where it is possible to grow up in such an insulated fashion. I know this, because I grew up in one.

Spokane, WA in my youth was about 99.44% white. I never even met a black person until I entered high school, and even then there was one black student out of about 750 total kids in my school. I never met an (admitted) atheist until I left town and moved to Seattle. Same with gay people (at least, people who were out then; I know from my old friends that there were several gay people in my graduating class).

In fairness to the truth . . .

Apparently Justinian is over 60 years old and is a “degreed engineer”. Is it really credible that the following is true?

I don't know anything about atheists. I never even knew they existed before recent posts on this site. .

Even in the highly unlikely event it is true then it makes this a lie . . .

The most immoral people I have seen call themselves Atheists and haven't a clue what morality is.

Either one or both statements are lies.

 

[ynot]

These were the numbers I believed:

Christianity

/// edited to save space /////

Total

5.1 billion – 6.8 billion[22]

77% – 99%[22]

Your post has nothing to do with mine. Do you admit, deny or refute that you lied?

Others also want to know . . .

Why have you lied in this forum?

Justinian2 -
We are still waiting to your response to this question. It was in post 36 in this thread.
There is no question that you lied.
We'd like to know which, if either, of your statements that were quoted were the truth.
Personally, I suspect that both of them were lies.
There is no point in discussing anything further until you answer this question.

That was not an answer to the post you quoted.
Are you going to admit to your lies?

That reply has absolutely nothing to do with what you were responding to.

 

[Dessi]

I allow gays their rights because I think natural selection will make gays extinct eventually.

I don't think I've seen anyone say they support gay rights so long as gays are "going extinct", you're definitely the first person I've ever seen with this view.

Just wondering what your perspective is on the subject : do you think there are other good arguments for gay rights? For example, because equal rights are worth supporting for the sake of equality itself, or because gay people have wants and feelings that deserve to be respected as much everyone else, or that there is fundamentally no moral distinction between heterosexuality and homosexuality, etc?

 

[crhkrebs]

Others also want to know . . .

Justinian2 is clearly evading the questions. So much for an open discourse.

 

[Complexity]

I allow gays their rights because I think natural selection will make gays extinct eventually.

How very kind of you!

Do you know when this 'extinction' will begin to occur? I may need to move up some vacation plans.

(species go extinct - thought you'd like to know!)

Please take a minute and identify the lies we've been asking about. We're simply dying to know!

(and I really want to know before we gays go extinct, which even now I feel rushing towards me... put me out of my misery and answer that one teeny weeny question - quickly!)

((I'm melting!!!))

ETA: It is so nice of you to allow us to become extinct rather than having us undergo yet another final solution.

Of course, this way you have a lot less work to do, and you get to wear those nifty uniforms anyway.

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

 

[Foster Zygote]

I allow gays their rights because I think natural selection will make gays extinct eventually.

As you have already demonstrated, your comprehension of evolution by natural selection is poor.

 

[Lowpro]

There has been no evidence for a God, and in that I do not believe the one claimed to exist unless there is compelling evidence.

On a side note Justinian, I thought Scientologists were classically contemptable towards psychology and psych institutions, so I am surprised that you said this:

I strongly support Scientologists who want to be happier more sane and brighter as verified by psychological tests approved and used by psychologists.

unless you're being tongue in cheek about it.

 

[Foster Zygote]

My observation is that children frequently believe oppositely from their parents.

No. Most often, people believe what their parents believed. Hence all those Hindus in India, all those Muslims in Saudi Arabia, all those Catholics in Italy and all those Evangelical Christians in the southern U.S.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Justinian2 is clearly evading the questions. So much for an open discourse.

He has done this before.