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JFK Conspiracy Theories: It Never Ends

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Robert Prey said:
One at at time, please.
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Fine, list which of those you think was being fraudulant in the autopsy reports one at a time? Or all at once? Or any way you want.

You claimed the autopsy was a fraud. They were witnesses to it. Ergo you are claiming they are liars. Now tell me which of them you think was responsible for the "wrong" information in the autopsy?

Or were the statements from your own Parkland quotes wrong?
 
Robert Prey said:
\

The Warren Report is a Whitewash.
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Who are you claiming was responsible for this whitewash Robert? If it was a lie, who do you hold responsible and / or calpable for that lie?



As presumably you just declared everybody who gave evidence that contradicts your Parkland Doctors as a liar. Or is that not what you are asserting when you call the report a whitewash?
 
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Robert Prey said:
The fact that the assassination event did in fact occur, makes that Odio incident more than just an "oddity" but reason to investigate and prosecute potential accomplices.
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Why is it sane for you to suggest this, but insane for the "Bug Man" to want to prosecute those he feels are culpable of a conspiracy?

And would you not agree that this statement about the WC is tantamount once more to calling everybody involved with it liars?
Robert Prey said:
Is anyone supposed to take the word of a bunch of cover-uppers as to whether or not they are cover-uppers?
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Or were they covering up by telling the truth?

Now read this:
Robert Prey said:
If the backyard photos are genuine then how do you explain the ghosted photo of LHO? The creator of the Ghosted photo, Det. Bobby G. Brown, explained it this way,
"I did it, just to be doing something."
Do you buy that?
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As you have suggested that Det. Brown was being untruthful, and the "do you buy that" question is clearly rhetorical, do you have any evidence to support the idea he was telling a lie, or is it only your opinion? (Oh look, you suggest he lied and NAME him, and he is a witness to a key event.... Oh no!)

And now this:
Robert Prey said:
Virtually all of the alleged photo 'experts" who testified for the HSCA had a background with Am. Intelligence, as does Farid. Do you doubt that I could provide an army of photo "experts" that assert the photo(s) are a fraud? Would that make any difference?
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Would you care to explain that quote if it is not intended to dismiss out of hand expert witnesses as part of the conspiracy? And if you lokk REAL CLOSE you will notice you named Fared. Do you have any evidence that Farid was part of the conspiracy and not valid as an expert witness?

Speaking of which:
Robert Prey said:
ZZZzzz. This is retracing old ground. "There is evidence that suggests the palm print was obtained from Oswald's dead body at the morgue, or later at the funeral home (Lifton 354-356 n; cf. Meagher 120-127). So suspicious was the palm print that even the WC privately had doubts about the manner in which it was obtained (Garrison 113; Marrs 445; cf. Lane 153-158). "
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Are you now claiming it was not your intention to suggest that an as yet unidentified officer of the Police of FBI lied about where and how the palmprints were obtained? Or will you concede that you have suggested a witness to the investigation wwas dismissed out of hand by you as a member of the conspiracy?

Robert Prey said:
Because they were all independently made with no motive for fraud, unlike the cover-uppers at Bethesda. Boy, oh boy are you ever grasping.
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Would you care to name the members of staff at Bethesda this post suggests were commiting fraud and less likely to be truthful or honest than at Parkland. Were they telling lies or were they mistaken? ;) Oh wait, if they were, as you suggest actively participating in a cover up that would be a lie. Can you name them please?

Robert Prey said:
The Parkland witnesses got to actually see the evidence before it was re-created and then hidden.
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Would you care to ellaborate on who did this please? The evidence in point being the body of JFK.

Oh and when I asked this:
Right, and the autopsy was all lies then? Or are you going to claim the pathologists who carried out the autopsy were more capable of being frauds or wrong than other doctors?
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Robert Prey said:
In a word, Yes.
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So YES the autopsy was a lie?
So when you asked me which witnesses to events you dismissed out of hand as part of the conspiracy I can answer with more than just one, I can give you this list:
Non-medical personnel from law-enforcement/security:

John J. O'Leary: Secret Service Agent.
William Greer: Secret Service Agent.
Roy Kellerman: Secret Service Agent.
Francis X. O'Neill: FBI Agent
James Sibert: FBI Agent, assisting Francis O'Neill
Medical personnel and assistants (USA = US Army, USN = US Navy, USAF = US Air Force, MC = Medical Corps)

Official autopsy signatories:

Commander J. Thornton Boswell, MC, USN: Chief of Pathology at Naval Medical Center, Bethesda.
Commander James J. Humes, MC, USN: director of the laboratories of the National Medical School, Naval Medical Center, Bethesda. Chief autopsy pathologist for the JFK autopsy. Officially conducted autopsy.
Lieutenant Colonel Pierre A. Finck, MC, USA: Chief of the military environmental pathology division and chief of the wound ballistics pathology branch at Walter Reed Medical Center.
Other medical personnel

John Thomas Stringer, Jr: medical photographer
Floyd Albert Riebe: medical photographer
Paul Kelly O'Connor: laboratory technologist
James Curtis Jenkins: laboratory technologist
Edward F. Reed: X-ray technician
Jerrol F. Custer: X-ray technician
Jan Gail Rudnicki: Dr. Boswell's lab tech assistant on the night of the autopsy
PO James E. Metzler, USN: Hospital Corpsman 3rd Class
James H. Ebersole: Assistant Chief of Radiology
Lieutenant Commander Gregory H. Cross, MC, USN: resident in surgery
CPO Chester H. Boyers, USN: Chief Petty Officer in charge of the pathology division, visited the autopsy room during the final stages to type receipts given by FBI and Secret Service for items obtained
Vice Admiral Edward Kenney, MC, USN: Surgeon General of the U.S. Navy
Dr. George Bakeman, USN
Rear Admiral George Burkley, M.D., MC, USN: the President’s personal physician
Robert Frederick Karnei, M.D.: Bethesda pathologist
Captain David P. Osborne, MC, USN: chief of surgery at Bethesda
Captain Robert O. Canada, commanding officer of Bethesda Naval Hospital
Additional military personnel

Brigadier General Godfrey McHugh, USAF: US military aide to the President on the Dallas trip
Rear Admiral Calvin B. Galloway, USN: Commanding Officer of the U.S. Naval Medical Center, Bethesda
Captain John H. Stover, Jr., USN: Commanding Officer of the U.S. Naval Medical School, Bethesda
Major General Philip C. Wehle, USA: Commanding officer of the U.S. Military District of Washington, D.C., entered to make arrangements for the funeral and lying in state.
2nd Lieutenant Richard A. Lipsey, USA: Jr. aide to General Wehle[21]
1st Lieutenant Samuel A. Bird, USA: Head of the Old Guard.
Others: At the termination of the autopsy, the following personnel from Gawler’s Funeral Home entered the autopsy room to prepare the President’s body for viewing and burial (this required 3 to 4 hours [1]):

John VanHoesen
Edwin Stroble
Thomas E. Robinson
Joe Hagen

Pick anyt one of those you like. ;)
 
Robert Prey said:
As long as dedicated Lone Nutters continue to goose-step their allegiance to a lie, the controversy will never end.
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.
There's always more CTwinkies floating in the conspiracy sewers, ready to add to the sewage as you have been doing.
No-planers, truthers, birthers, all have similar mental problems with reality.
 
Tomtomkent said:
Fine, list which of those you think was being fraudulant in the autopsy reports one at a time? Or all at once? Or any way you want.

You claimed the autopsy was a fraud. They were witnesses to it. Ergo you are claiming they are liars. Now tell me which of them you think was responsible for the "wrong" information in the autopsy?

Or were the statements from your own Parkland quotes wrong?
Click to expand...

You just don't get the rules yet. You pick your poison or there is no dialogue.
 
Tomtomkent said:
Why is it sane for you to suggest this, but insane for the "Bug Man" to want to prosecute those he feels are culpable of a conspiracy?

And would you not agree that this statement about the WC is tantamount once more to calling everybody involved with it liars?

Or were they covering up by telling the truth?

Now read this:


As you have suggested that Det. Brown was being untruthful, and the "do you buy that" question is clearly rhetorical, do you have any evidence to support the idea he was telling a lie, or is it only your opinion? (Oh look, you suggest he lied and NAME him, and he is a witness to a key event.... Oh no!)

And now this:

Would you care to explain that quote if it is not intended to dismiss out of hand expert witnesses as part of the conspiracy? And if you lokk REAL CLOSE you will notice you named Fared. Do you have any evidence that Farid was part of the conspiracy and not valid as an expert witness?

Speaking of which:


Are you now claiming it was not your intention to suggest that an as yet unidentified officer of the Police of FBI lied about where and how the palmprints were obtained? Or will you concede that you have suggested a witness to the investigation wwas dismissed out of hand by you as a member of the conspiracy?


Would you care to name the members of staff at Bethesda this post suggests were commiting fraud and less likely to be truthful or honest than at Parkland. Were they telling lies or were they mistaken? ;) Oh wait, if they were, as you suggest actively participating in a cover up that would be a lie. Can you name them please?


Would you care to ellaborate on who did this please? The evidence in point being the body of JFK.

Oh and when I asked this:


So YES the autopsy was a lie?
So when you asked me which witnesses to events you dismissed out of hand as part of the conspiracy I can answer with more than just one, I can give you this list:
Non-medical personnel from law-enforcement/security:

John J. O'Leary: Secret Service Agent.
William Greer: Secret Service Agent.
Roy Kellerman: Secret Service Agent.
Francis X. O'Neill: FBI Agent
James Sibert: FBI Agent, assisting Francis O'Neill
Medical personnel and assistants (USA = US Army, USN = US Navy, USAF = US Air Force, MC = Medical Corps)

Official autopsy signatories:

Commander J. Thornton Boswell, MC, USN: Chief of Pathology at Naval Medical Center, Bethesda.
Commander James J. Humes, MC, USN: director of the laboratories of the National Medical School, Naval Medical Center, Bethesda. Chief autopsy pathologist for the JFK autopsy. Officially conducted autopsy.
Lieutenant Colonel Pierre A. Finck, MC, USA: Chief of the military environmental pathology division and chief of the wound ballistics pathology branch at Walter Reed Medical Center.
Other medical personnel

John Thomas Stringer, Jr: medical photographer
Floyd Albert Riebe: medical photographer
Paul Kelly O'Connor: laboratory technologist
James Curtis Jenkins: laboratory technologist
Edward F. Reed: X-ray technician
Jerrol F. Custer: X-ray technician
Jan Gail Rudnicki: Dr. Boswell's lab tech assistant on the night of the autopsy
PO James E. Metzler, USN: Hospital Corpsman 3rd Class
James H. Ebersole: Assistant Chief of Radiology
Lieutenant Commander Gregory H. Cross, MC, USN: resident in surgery
CPO Chester H. Boyers, USN: Chief Petty Officer in charge of the pathology division, visited the autopsy room during the final stages to type receipts given by FBI and Secret Service for items obtained
Vice Admiral Edward Kenney, MC, USN: Surgeon General of the U.S. Navy
Dr. George Bakeman, USN
Rear Admiral George Burkley, M.D., MC, USN: the President’s personal physician
Robert Frederick Karnei, M.D.: Bethesda pathologist
Captain David P. Osborne, MC, USN: chief of surgery at Bethesda
Captain Robert O. Canada, commanding officer of Bethesda Naval Hospital
Additional military personnel

Brigadier General Godfrey McHugh, USAF: US military aide to the President on the Dallas trip
Rear Admiral Calvin B. Galloway, USN: Commanding Officer of the U.S. Naval Medical Center, Bethesda
Captain John H. Stover, Jr., USN: Commanding Officer of the U.S. Naval Medical School, Bethesda
Major General Philip C. Wehle, USA: Commanding officer of the U.S. Military District of Washington, D.C., entered to make arrangements for the funeral and lying in state.
2nd Lieutenant Richard A. Lipsey, USA: Jr. aide to General Wehle[21]
1st Lieutenant Samuel A. Bird, USA: Head of the Old Guard.
Others: At the termination of the autopsy, the following personnel from Gawler’s Funeral Home entered the autopsy room to prepare the President’s body for viewing and burial (this required 3 to 4 hours [1]):

John VanHoesen
Edwin Stroble
Thomas E. Robinson
Joe Hagen

Pick anyt one of those you like. ;)
Click to expand...

One question at a time, please.
 
Tomtomkent said:
Fine, list which of those you think was being fraudulant in the autopsy reports one at a time? Or all at once? Or any way you want.

You claimed the autopsy was a fraud. They were witnesses to it. Ergo you are claiming they are liars. Now tell me which of them you think was responsible for the "wrong" information in the autopsy?

Or were the statements from your own Parkland quotes wrong?
Click to expand...

Not everything or everybody dealing with the autopsy is lying. That is why you must be specific as to your accusations or there is no dialogue.
 
So I was watching "Ruby And Oswald" yesterday with Frederic Forrest and Michael Lerner from 1978. It's a fairly dry recitation of events but two things really struck me. One, Doris Roberts was not young 33 yrs ago and two, Lerner as Ruby's sobbing when he receives the news of Kennedy's death is one of the most hilarious things I've ever heard.
 
Robert Prey said:
You just don't get the rules yet. You pick your poison or there is no dialogue.
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Robert Prey said:
Not everything or everybody dealing with the autopsy is lying. That is why you must be specific as to your accusations or there is no dialogue.
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Robert, perhaps you misunderstand what has happened: You have suggested the Autopsy was a fraud. That is the accusation:

You have dismissed it out of hand as a lie.

Why is it unreasonable to ask you who on the autopsy staff you consider to be responsible for that lie?
I have listed everybody who was involved in the autopsy, who was witness to the event, the one you claim was fraudulant. Simply explain who was responsible for the misinformation, and by extension the conspiracy.


Otherwise you are dismissing them all out of hand as liars. It is YOU who should have been more specific with YOUR accusation. You made an accusation, suggesting somebody has to "name" the person you were refering to is a cheap trick that fools nobody. You said the autopsy was less honest and reliable than the Parkland witnesses. You didn't specify. Now I demanding that you do. Look at your won statement:
Robert Prey said:
Not everything or everybody dealing with the autopsy is lying
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The inference: Some things are.
So tell us which parts and which people. Give us the name.

Surely you can't expect to have it both ways: Both make the claim, then challenge me to name who you were talking about to prove you have not commited libel or slander? You made the claim, with out specifics we assume you meant all involved. I can see why you are afraid to make a specific statement and offer details. You know that then we will ask for proof, for evidence. And you simply don't have it. Neither it would appear do you have the spine to admit your lack of proof.

So stop trying a double ferret. It hasn't foolled a single person. You dismissed the autopsy, which means dismissing all those who witnessed it, as part of the conspiracy. YOU are the one who should name names. I have no interest in a bizzare guessing game, where I have to work my way down the list because you refered to with out naming, those you dismissed out of hand.

Pathetic childish claptrap.
 
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Robert Prey said:
Paul O'Connor's drawing shows that the photo is from the back, not the front.
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No. The drawing shows Paul O'Connor CLAIMS it was from the back of the head.

Uncropping it, to show it in context shows it is not.

Here, let me show you the uncropped version again:
[nsfw]
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/head.jpg
[/nsfw]

It doesn't matter what a person claims, even with a drawing, you can't change what the photo ACTUALLY SHOWS.

Seriously. Drawing a picture doesn't change it. Saying it aint so doesn't change it. Rotating the image 90 degrees doesn't chaange it.

Why are you pretending it does?
 
Robert Prey said:
One question at a time, please.
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Well, start with the easiest, one that has been asked over and again for a long time now with out satisfactory answer: When you stated the autopsy was not reliable and part of the conspiracy, which of the listed names are you accusing of the lie?

The "one at a time" and imposing of silly "rules" is a simple dodge. If you say "do this or there will be no dialogue" you are looking for an excuse not to have to answer the questions. The obvious reason is because you know your theory falls apart and has no internal logic. In future at least have the wit to admit you can't answer the questuons instead of trying to deflect blame onto others.
 
I Ratant said:
.
There's always more CTwinkies floating in the conspiracy sewers, ready to add to the sewage as you have been doing.
No-planers, truthers, birthers, all have similar mental problems with reality.
Click to expand...

Do they all resort to this same cowardly dodge:
Robert Prey said:
One at at time, please.
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Or is ours just singularly stung after shooting himself in the foot so much?
 
I Ratant said:
.
This one, fer shure!
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.
The unashamed PhotoShopping of the original image is shameless!
The truth will be known!
The actual photo as it appeared on the front page of the Dallas Times Herald Gazzette Breeze News!
 

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RoboTimbo said:
Do they all resort to this same cowardly dodge:

Or is ours just singularly stung after shooting himself in the foot so much?
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Well one has to wonder, if he genuinely feels as though there is some kind of threat he might not respond if we dare to have a normal conversation instead of playing by some odd rulkes he feels the need to impose.

I notice that his "essays" about the Final Nail, Second Shooter etc, do not give just one piece of evidence at a time, discuss one subject at a time or so forth. Apparently those are rules for those talking to him alone, but he can break.

In reality it is all just a dodge. Just like the reverse ferret where I now seemingly have to guess which members of a report he dismissed out of hand were lying in his opinion. Apparently simply saying "Sorry, perhaps it was unwise for me to give a single word answer and imply all involved were dishonest here is my case with evidence" is not an option. Perhaps it looks too much like a retreat. Or too much like a human being capable of a civil discussion.

I have no intention of limiting the number of questions I ask. If Robert feels it is unfair and wont engage it will reflect on him not me or anybody else. The rest of the world is capable of refering back to a post, and feel no need to answer all questions at once in a single reply. If he is somehow unable to go back to a post at a later date and answer the questions, then more fool him.
 
Robert Prey said:
One at at time, please.
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cowardly dodge noted

Robert Prey said:
One question at a time, please.
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cowardly dodge noted

Robert Prey said:
You just don't get the rules yet. You pick your poison or there is no dialogue.
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Cowardly dodge noted. You can ignore it all you want. But we are not bound to YOUR "rules" of engagement. I have concluded that you have been defeated here as you have failed to support your alleged conspiracy. You have yet to post any evidence whatsoever. In the face of everything that's been presented here in support of the common narrative for over 44 pages you retreat. One would think from your behavior here that you are nothing more than a deluded liar.
 
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