Occupy Wall Street better defend its identity

[IDB87]

It also bothers me that the cops are decked out in stormtrooper gear. Are they expecting a war?

Perhaps you should be asking this question to the actual police.

 

[JihadJane]

'NYPD pepper sprays man to death'

~ ~ ~ ~

Shuize, awesome though he is, is not authorized to issue orders which would justify the use of pepper-spray for failure to follow his well-reasoned and logical requests. The world is worse for it, of course, but that's just the way it is.

Irrelevant. Pepper spraying anybody in the face for any reason is an act of violence.

 

[dc1971]

You're still ducking what the actual purpose of setting up the encampment was. We have several pro UC Davis sources claiming it was solely for defying police orders.

Yeah?


...and?

 

[IDB87]

Yeah?


...and?

Do you just gloss over most posts?

Read this.

Notice:

State Laws
Students or others who violate the law may be subject to police or citizen's arrest and
criminal prosecution; these laws apply to both on- and off-campus. The following are
misdemeanors:

*Assembling for purpose of disturbing the peace or committing unlawful
act, failing to disperse after directed to do so by a public officer. PC 416.

Students were arrested after they decide to protest for the sole purpose of assembling to disturb the peace, and then refusing orders to disperse.

Just because you sympathize with them doesn't mean they didn't violate campus rules they themselves agreed to upon enrollment.

In other words:

Actions have consequences. Welcome to the real world...etc.

 

[JihadJane]

 

[IDB87]

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/263894ecbfaee4bba9.jpg[/qimg]

Lol.

On the bright side, there's a wonderful amount of photo shopping going on now.

 

[AlBell]

It also bothers me that the cops are decked out in stormtrooper gear. Are they expecting a war?

Perhaps you should be asking this question to the actual police.

Have you seen footage on the 1968 Dem Convention riots?

That (and the nuts who demonstrate=riot at enonomic meetings here and elsewhere) lead to current 'stormtrooper' gear; cops can get hurt like everyone else and seem to prefer not to get hurt.

Crowd control = taking a few bites from a **** sandwich.

ymmv.

 

[Taarkin]

So do their dorms.

So do their tents. Tents have a function besides defying police.

It wouldn't surprise me.

Finally, we agree that they were not just defying authority for it's own sake! Pity it took several pages.

You're still ducking what the actual purpose of setting up the encampment was. We have several pro UC Davis sources claiming it was solely for defying police orders.

What evidence do they have that it was SOLELY for defying police? There are a million other ways to defy police, why pick one that has non-police-defying function instead of one without said function?

 

[IDB87]

So do their tents. Tents have a function besides defying police.

Bunking in their dorms is within the rules the students agreed to upon enrollment.

Finally, we agree that they were not just defying authority for it's own sake! Pity it took several pages.

Still a far-cry from protesting tuition hikes, and besides, it's to the same end. Gain notoriety by defying police orders. Don't make me bust out the profit meme.

Are you going to explain how you think camping out on campus is protesting tuition hikes yet?

Are you still going to deny that when UC Berekely students were evicted from their encampment, UC Davis got the idea to do the same?

What evidence do they have that it was SOLELY for defying police?

I'm just going by what the Occupiers have said, and what those who support them have said. You are welcome to make an argument.

There are a million other ways to defy police, why pick one that has non-police-defying function instead of one without said function?

So people like you can defend them like this?

 

[theprestige]

My complaint is that shuize won't let the simple fact that violence is violence into his thick skull.

Have you considered the possibility that shuize already accepts this fact, and is actually discussing the difference between unjustified violence and justified violence?

 

[JihadJane]

Have you considered the possibility that shuize already accepts this fact, and is actually discussing the difference between unjustified violence and justified violence?

No, there's no indication yet that shuize has accepted this fact.

 

[Taarkin]

Bunking in their dorms is within the rules the students agreed to upon enrollment.

No doy. The tents were set up despite their rulebreaking.

Still a far-cry from protesting tuition hikes, and besides, it's to the same end. Gain notoriety by defying police orders. Don't make me bust out the profit meme.

We both know that tuition hikes are not the only things OWS are complaining about. I'd appreciate a repost.

I'm just going by what the Occupiers have said, and what those who support them have said. You are welcome to make an argument.

I know you posted a blog, but I couldn't find the quote you implied.

So people like you can defend them like this?

My defense of the activists is not predicated on the existence of tents.

 

[Taarkin]

Have you considered the possibility that shuize already accepts this fact, and is actually discussing the difference between unjustified violence and justified violence?

Read the thread. He has repeatedly denied that this is the case.

 

[bookitty]

Bunking in their dorms is within the rules the students agreed to upon enrollment.



Still a far-cry from protesting tuition hikes, and besides, it's to the same end. Gain notoriety by defying police orders. Don't make me bust out the profit meme.

Are you going to explain how you think camping out on campus is protesting tuition hikes yet?

Are you still going to deny that when UC Berekely students were evicted from their encampment, UC Davis got the idea to do the same?



I'm just going by what the Occupiers have said, and what those who support them have said. You are welcome to make an argument.



So people like you can defend them like this?

You're basically saying that these protests should be as unobtrusive as possible. That sort of defeats the purpose. "Can't you kids go protest in your dorms!? Keep the music down while your at it!"

 

[Pardalis]

What I find disturbing is that people are posting the personal phone number of the police officer who sprayed the pepper.

Talk about criminal behavior.

 

[IDB87]

No doy. The tents were set up despite their rulebreaking.

Which is the root of the problem silly.

We both know that tuition hikes are not the only things OWS are complaining about. I'd appreciate a repost.

I'd appreciate correlation. Which things were OWS Davis complaining about on campus that weren't about tuition hikes, and how is it relevant to the university?

I know you posted a blog, but I couldn't find the quote you implied.

Try re-reading it.

My defense of the activists is not predicated on the existence of tents.

Your defense is based on general defiance for the (undefined) Greater Good, of which you sympathize.

 

[IDB87]

You're basically saying that these protests should be as unobtrusive as possible.

The school has protest zones for a reason. If you think the protests should be as obtrusive as possible, you should just say so.

Please explain to Schrodinger's Cat why you believe she should be inconvenienced.

 

[stilicho]

The activist movements of the 60s and 70s did change the world forever.

How utterly delusional.

 

[stilicho]

You're basically saying that these protests should be as unobtrusive as possible. That sort of defeats the purpose. "Can't you kids go protest in your dorms!? Keep the music down while your at it!"

No, they're protesting correctly and they should continue to do what they're doing to the point of being arrested and imprisoned. That's the right way to do it.

The problem (and the reason they're going to fail) is that they have no support and no coherent agenda. In the meantime they're missing out on what should be glorious propaganda opportunities (Naomi Wolf/octagenarians peppered/UC peppered/etc). Where is the follow-up? Where's the marketing team?

Brainster mentioned Woodstock and I think the comparison might be worth examining. The reason Woodstock rings a bell even nowadays is because people are convinced it was something important. Nobody's going to remember the peppered UC students (assuming they're actually enrolled there) unless there's a compelling reason to do so and a fully financed campaign to market it.

All this goes back to something we were briefly discussing. The "movement" actually does need leadership and now more than ever. They're allowing pure propaganda gold to slip through their fingers because they don't know how to sell it.

As always, I am available as a consultant for a reasonable price.

 

[NoahFence]

here is a chance to call the dude and express your disgust or admiration.
(anyone who feels that this was necessary force, is clearly deluded)

Well that's a pretty stupid thing to post. The guy's most likely getting fired, and now some whacko is going to go to his house and probably try to kill him.


Just for being an idiot.
Well done.