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Australian Federal Election 2010

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amb said:
No nation on Earth is as stupid as this lot to saddle their economy with a $ 23 per ton carbon tax.
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(A)t $23 a tonne and ratcheting up, was ''one of the highest costs of carbon anywhere on the planet''.

It's true, and the government will be hoping things don't stay that way for long.

Australia's carbon price - fixed for three years, then floating from July 1, 2015 - was meant to start roughly in line with the international market price. But in June Europe's carbon price fell out of bed, as the euro zone sovereign debt crisis deepened, dropping from its two-year, post-global financial crisis level of about €12 to €14 ($16 to $19) per tonne to roughly €7 to €10 per tonne this week. The stronger our currency, the worse that gap looks.

The price drop shows Europe's emissions trading scheme is working: if the economy weakens, emissions fall, and staying under the scheme's emissions ''cap'' gets easier and cheaper.​

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/init...in-long-run-20111014-1lp13.html#ixzz1e2tNoomE
 
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bit_pattern said:
(A)t $23 a tonne and ratcheting up, was ''one of the highest costs of carbon anywhere on the planet''.

It's true, and the government will be hoping things don't stay that way for long.

Australia's carbon price - fixed for three years, then floating from July 1, 2015 - was meant to start roughly in line with the international market price. But in June Europe's carbon price fell out of bed, as the euro zone sovereign debt crisis deepened, dropping from its two-year, post-global financial crisis level of about €12 to €14 ($16 to $19) per tonne to roughly €7 to €10 per tonne this week. The stronger our currency, the worse that gap looks.

The price drop shows Europe's emissions trading scheme is working: if the economy weakens, emissions fall, and staying under the scheme's emissions ''cap'' gets easier and cheaper.​

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/init...in-long-run-20111014-1lp13.html#ixzz1e2tNoomE
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And you actually believe this measure will make one iota of difference to the world carbon pollution problem?
 
A.A. Alfie said:
Thanks for the clarification and the strengthening of my point. ;)

We are not allowed to have hydro or nuclear, so instead we will simply sabotage our entire economy. Smart huh?



I am not sure why you think they have "no right to one", nor why (it seems) that those that come by boat because they have money and geography have a greater right.

And until you come up with a better word for queue, I think we can safely use it, don't you? :rolleyes:
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What's the Snowy Mountains Scheme then? Chopped Liver?
 
Oh, I am right afterall.
Even though the Bible makes it clear that all people are descended from Adam and Eve (so they must be very closely related),1 there are still misconceptions among some Christians surrounding ‘race’. Surprisingly, perhaps, this can include concerns about the idea of marriage between two believers from different so-called races.
But these concerns have no basis in either science or the Bible. Science has finally caught up with God’s Word in affirming how very closely related we all are at the genetic level.
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Creation Ministries says so, so it must be true.
It is good to see that science has finally caught up with the bible.:boggled:
There you go Amb, go read your bible son.:D
The evidence is all there.
Well, as good as Ambs. evidence anyway.
 
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-11-20/labor-left-brands-party-sell-out-over-uranium/3682434

A Labor Senator has declared the party will be a "sell-out" if it overturns the ban on uranium sales to India.

Another flip flop by Australia's worst pm.

Let's see, who and over what has she screwed over so far:

- The Australian public on the Carbon tax
- Kevin Rudd on the Prime Ministership
- Labor over gay marriage
- The Greens on gay marriage
- Kevin Rudd on foreign affairs
- Labor over offshore processing
- the real Julia on the fake Julia
- the fake Julia on the real Julia
- the fake Julia on the real Julia and another fake Julia
- the fake fake fake Julia on the fake fake Julia, the fake Julia and the real Julia
- all the Julias on most everyone
- Labor on onshore processing
- the public and her colleagues on East Timor
- the public and her colleagues on the Malaysian solution
- the dead at Christmas Island and elsewhere on the undoing the Pacific solution
- the Australian purse on detention centre costs
- QANTAS, its workers and travellers on not invoking her own IR policy
- The Labor left over uranium sales.
- Labor left and the green over US forces
- Labor and the left by fawning over the US president (to be fair, she wasn't the only one, Brown et al were falling all over themselves too - quite sickening really).
- all of us just by not being up to the job and pretending that she was
- all of us by having no clear vision

There is more to come, for example returning the budget to the black - only time will tell but it isn't looking good - and some independents on undeliverable promises.

We eagerly await what's next, more fun than a barrell of Rangas

That's what I can come up with now - I am rather tired right now. Please feel free to add more - it's no doubt a long list.
 
So it's amb the racist. Buddy, I'm only repeating what up to 80% of the Australian public are too scared to say in case they are labelled racist, just like you are labelling me a racist.
It does not change the fact that multiculturalism has been proven not to work.
Google is your friend.
 
amb said:
So it's amb the racist. Buddy, I'm only repeating what up to 80% of the Australian public are too scared to say in case they are labelled racist, just like you are labelling me a racist.
It does not change the fact that multiculturalism has been proven not to work.
Google is your friend.
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80% huh? And I'm sure you've got the data that back up up that figure, right?

I live in a very multicultural suburb of Melbourne and it works just dandy for me. We've got Anglo's, Italian's, Greek's, Lebanese, Indians, Vietnamese, Chinese, various shades of Africans all living alongside one another, intermingling and otherwise getting along with life without any sort of cultural tensions. And the food variety is fantastic, I wouldn't give it up for the world.
 
bit_pattern said:
80% huh? And I'm sure you've got the data that back up up that figure, right?

I live in a very multicultural suburb of Melbourne and it works just dandy for me. We've got Anglo's, Italian's, Greek's, Lebanese, Indians, Vietnamese, Chinese, various shades of Africans all living alongside one another, intermingling and otherwise getting along with life without any sort of cultural tensions. And the food variety is fantastic, I wouldn't give it up for the world.
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Waiting on those USA state stats.

By the way, what you describe is incorrectly called multiculturalism. What you have is integrated cultures. Multiculturalism is actually what (say) Canada has with separate French and English-type cultures. It is where we have conclaves of different cultures (say Lebanese Moslem) in a certain suburb that any real problems arise. In some of these places, unless you knew better you would think you were in Beirut - or wherever.

While I don't agree with amb's sweeping statements, he has a valid point about multiculturalism not being compatible - but only where certain levels of integration have failed.
 
A.A. Alfie said:
Waiting on those USA state stats.
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You're the one shifting the goalposts, go look them up for yourself. I'm happy having established your intellectual dishonesty in calling Gillard a liar for making a factual statement, when you weren't even aware that those countries all do have ETS's. You'd think you'd actually do some research before mouthing off and accusing others of lying.

By the way, what you describe is incorrectly called multiculturalism. What you have is integrated cultures.
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It's not incorrect. You are trying to shift the goalposts again.
 
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bit_pattern said:
You're the one shifting the goalposts, go look them up for yourself. I'm happy having established your intellectual dishonesty in calling Gillard a liar for making a factual statement, when you weren't even aware that those countries all do have ETS's. You'd think you'd actually do some research before mouthing off and accusing others of lying.
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Nope, no shifting of goalposts on my part - the USA is fifty states. Gillard (and/or her government) has lied or deliberately misled or overstated the truth (I call it a lie). Just because a few states are playing and making their economies basket cases does not mean the USA (all fifty states) is. I'm kinda surprised you didn't know that. Were you also aware that at least one who had an ETS has changed, and another three are looking to do the same.

So much for the USA being on board.

I also note that - as usual - you refuse to support your claims. Dishonest as ever.

bit_pattern said:
It's not incorrect. You are trying to shift the goalposts again.
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Actually I am correct - my definition is what multiculturalism was originally. I admit it has morphed into your definition over time and have no problem with its usage. I was performing something of an experiment to see how you would react. You didn't let me down. Have you ever noticed how angry you get when you don't know something. :D
 
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bit_pattern said:
80% huh? And I'm sure you've got the data that back up up that figure, right?

I live in a very multicultural suburb of Melbourne and it works just dandy for me. We've got Anglo's, Italian's, Greek's, Lebanese, Indians, Vietnamese, Chinese, various shades of Africans all living alongside one another, intermingling and otherwise getting along with life without any sort of cultural tensions. And the food variety is fantastic, I wouldn't give it up for the world.
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Perhaps you should leave your cocoon and travel to areas of London where even the natives wouldn't dare.
 
A.A. Alfie said:
I also note that - as usual - you refuse to support your claims. Dishonest as ever.
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Yes but I never made the claim, Alfie. You called Gillard a liar for saying America was initiating a pilot carbon pricing scheme, I showed that she wasn't and that you were the one being dishonest, then you responded by demanding I prove to you that something called the "breadth and depth", or something equally as cryptic, of the scheme.

I am not willing to go any deeper down the rabbit hole with you. Gillard did not lie and there is a whole lot more going on out there in the world of climate action than seems to have penetrated that bubble of News Ltd misinformation that you exist in. That's pretty much the end of the story as as as I'm concerned
 
bit_pattern said:
Yes but I never made the claim, Alfie. You called Gillard a liar for saying America was initiating a pilot carbon pricing scheme, I showed that she wasn't and that you were the one being dishonest, then you responded by demanding I prove to you
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More dishonesty? Where did you show me? This is not what happened at all. All you did was make an unsupported statement and twisted the truth.

bit_pattern said:
I am not willing to go any deeper down the rabbit hole with you.
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And cowardice to boot.

bit_pattern said:
Gillard did not lie
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Sure she did. She (and her government) have said that the USA (and others) are implementing or piloting an ETS or carbon tax. Obama says they aren't. Lie exposed, as is your dishonesty ...... yet again.
 
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The Americans, and rightly so, have stated that without India and China joining the Western world in combating pollution, it's futile. The reply from both is that it was the Westerners/First world who in the last few decades have caused this pollution by their incessant growth. They now have as much right to this growth without impediment about the using of fossil fuels to do so. And only today, in an article in a weekend newspaper here it was stated that this climate change theory has been exaggerated beyond belief. There are no more typhoons now than there were a century ago, no more floods than a century ago. What has changed is the enormous population growth. More people living in flood prone areas, more people living in more earthquake prone areas, or drought areas than the past. These facts are dishonestly used to cloud the issue of climate change. The problem is not climate change, but the unchecked population explosion.
 
amb said:
without India and China joining the Western world in combating pollution, it's futile.
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Yes, well, they are both putting a price on pollution. India already has an emissions trading scheme and is even taxing coal, while China's starts at around the same time as out ETS. Did you miss that part when I explained it to Alfie?

This thread makes me bilious. I remember now why I avoid it.
 
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